IBEC Proposal on Public Sector Pay Freeze

[Kevin Doyle]

Kevin, let me ask you some questions also, why did you join the civil service ? was it the security or excitment and oppertunities it provides ? do you feel that you deserve to be paid the same as someone in the private sector ? and if so would you be willing to forgo on some of the perks that are associated with the civil service for same, basically would you work for the civil service but with private industry terms, conditions and renumeration ?

I'm not in the Civil Service, I work for a commercial semi-state body (not the ESB) and I joined because it was the best job I could get in Ireland at the time. I had been working abroad for many years and wanted to return home.

I do what I'm paid to do to best of my abilities. I do not concern myself with other people’s occupations or how much they are paid. I see people in what I consider parasitical and arbitrarily useless jobs on big money and associated perks but I don’t waste a thought on feeling hard done by because our economy places a higher value on his/her occupation.

I have a family, I am reasonably paid with good conditions which are reasonably family friendly. I have worked in the Private sector for more money and better conditions (seriously more money) but that was 15 years ago in Germany. I have an honours degree and am accredited to two professional associations. I have a career path and a salary scale and unless promoted can tell you to the cent how much money I will be getting in 10 years time. It is nothing to write home about.

But I am no looking for a scapegoat or posting on a website whinging about it

[drbob1972]

not nit picking but from a career stability, pay scales, oppertunities, etc perspective whats the difference between the CS and a semi-state ?

[Kevin Doyle]

not nit picking but from a career stability, pay scales, oppertunities, etc perspective whats the difference between the CS and a semi-state ?

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

I have tenure to a degree but we are restructuring at the moment and because we have a commercial remit from the Oireachtas that could include VER's, redundancies or both. Anyone with less than 15 years service will lose their pension. We are not affected by Decentralisation.

The main difference between the CS and a Semi state is subvention. Most departments in the CS require subvention in varying degrees. There are quite a lot of CS depts. that recoup serious revenue and some are net contributors rather the beneficiaries.

We receive no subvention at all. We must at least break even or operate within the moneys recouped for the provision to both the State and the public of our services.

[drbob1972]

not nit picking but from a career stability, pay scales, oppertunities, etc perspective whats the difference between the CS and a semi-state ?

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

when you say Less risk do you mean your job has less risk and less responsibility than that of the private sector, or that you would have less risk and responsiblity in the private sector ? as if thats the case along with the at least 60% increase in salary why would one remain in the public sector ? any pension loss could be made up quickly with a 60% salary increase assuming thats the / one of the gating issues

[jake76]

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

I suggest you leave. You employer is obviously taking advantage of you.

[shannonBlueShirt]

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

I suggest you leave. You employer is obviously taking advantage of you.

If public sector works think they can do better in the productive sectors why dont they just leave and get a real job...

[Kevin Doyle]

not nit picking but from a career stability, pay scales, oppertunities, etc perspective whats the difference between the CS and a semi-state ?

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

when you say Less risk do you mean your job has less risk and less responsibility than that of the private sector, or that you would have less risk and responsiblity in the private sector ? as if thats the case along with the at least 60% increase in salary why would one remain in the public sector ? any pension loss could be made up quickly with a 60% salary increase assuming thats the / one of the gating issues

The primary reasons for staying where the family friendly policies. I was tempted to jump more than once thinking my position was dead end but I got promoted. I would have less risk and responsibilities in the private sector. We deliver an extremely exacting service to government whose standards are set by the EU, this level of accuracy and precision is not required by the public or private companoes. Private operators sell to the public and are not required to deliver the same standard of product. We are mandated to provide this service State wide-a matter which caused considerable consternation as it meant we had to provide an extremely unprofitable service to Government in some areas yet still remain within budget.

These are challenges the Private sector have never experienced, and stresses they do not have to deal with.

The point is, I am not on here whinging about ‘themmuns’ in the private sector and pointing the finger demanding they take wage cuts or [pay pay freezes for the benefit of the country yet some ‘wet behind the ears’ pup whose free time mostly comprises of binge drinking (not you) has decided to appoint himself as board financial advisor and dictate what he considers to be thoroughly reviewed and incontrovertible fiscal policy as absolute and without contestation. He does so by stating those who have the audacity to disagree with him live in some far away land populated with Lu-las.

As I have stated, the CS are in fact in a de facto wage freeze as they cannot receive a pay award until after 2016, that is 8 years within which they will receive 5%. Nothing more. That is the annual rate of inflation at present so that increase will be wiped out next year and they will receive nothing for the following 7 years.

What more can the CS do, or is all this a premise to the extremely bitter bill of a call for pay cuts?

As for culling the Civil Service that is a matter for those who fattened it in the first place, namely Fianna Fail and funnily enough, the PD’s.

[Kevin Doyle]

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

I suggest you leave. You employer is obviously taking advantage of you.

If public sector works think they can do better in the productive sectors why dont they just leave and get a real job...

Christ almighty

[Kevin Doyle]

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

I suggest you leave. You employer is obviously taking advantage of you.

I have stated why I stayed.



The big difference here though is that I am not dictating to anyone what their labour is worth or that they should take a pay freeze.

[shannonBlueShirt]

[quote=Kevin Doyle]

I benefitted from benchmarking, but with my qualifications and experience I am earning 60-70% less on average than I would in the Private sector, with LESS risk and less responsibility. (That is a conservative estimate. Some colleagues in the Private Sector are on substantially more). I would also be able to work for myself which I am strictly prohibited from doing by the state.

I suggest you leave. You employer is obviously taking advantage of you.

I have stated why I stayed.
The big difference here though is that I am not dictating to anyone what their labour is worth or that they should take a pay freeze.[/quote:2i1pd0gx]

Your labour is worth what people are prepared to pay for it and the Irish people are not prepared to pay ye pay rises...Ye screwed us with benchmarking...

Private operators sell to the public and are not required to deliver the same standard of product.

What B*****k is this... Private operators live or die on the standard of their product...