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  1. #1
    Patslatt1 Patslatt1 is offline

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    Vacant site tax could prevent major long term housing projects

    See https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2018/...n-double-to-7/

    A major regeneration plan described in the London Times May 15 article "London's inner-city regeneration plan that is a true labour of love" might well have been prevented by a tax similar to Ireland's vacant site tax. The developer British Land has slowly been accumulating land for six years for the Canada Water development in a 53 acre area that will have 3,000 homes and six skyscrapers.

    Under the punitive Irish vacant site levy, taxes would have to be paid many years before the development returned a profit given the huge upfront outlays of 3 billion and the fiteen year time horizon to completion.

    There would be no need for a vacant site tax if the government cut the red tape of planning permissions and invested in housing infrastructure in water, sewerage and roads to facilitate developments.
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  2. #2
    Hitchcock Hitchcock is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    See https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2018/...n-double-to-7/

    A major regeneration plan described in the London Times May 15 article "London's inner-city regeneration plan that is a true labour of love" might well have been prevented by a tax similar to Ireland's vacant site tax. The developer British Land has slowly been accumulating land for six years for the Canada Water development in a 53 acre area that will have 3,000 homes and six skyscrapers.

    Under the punitive Irish vacant site levy, taxes would have to be paid many years before the development returned a profit given the huge upfront outlays of 3 billion and the fiteen year time horizon to completion.

    There would be no need for a vacant site tax if the government cut the red tape of planning permissions and invested in housing infrastructure in water, sewerage and roads to facilitate developments.
    There has been more than enough incentivising of the private sector to build through tax incentives, Strategic Development Zones, Strategic Housing Development, lowering of apartment guidelines etc.

    The vacant site level which at it's current level is pathetic and will have little effect in preventing man of the big development agencies from hoarding land.

    Through LIHAF the state is investing in infrastructure.

    The reason builders are not building houses is because they are profit driven, and they can't make enough money from building affordable houses hence irrespective of the the actual social need for houses they won't budge.
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  3. #3
    Patslatt1 Patslatt1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitchcock View Post
    There has been more than enough incentivising of the private sector to build through tax incentives, Strategic Development Zones, Strategic Housing Development, lowering of apartment guidelines etc.

    The vacant site level which at it's current level is pathetic and will have little effect in preventing man of the big development agencies from hoarding land.

    Through LIHAF the state is investing in infrastructure.

    The reason builders are not building houses is because they are profit driven, and they can't make enough money from building affordable houses hence irrespective of the the actual social need for houses they won't budge.
    All the tax breaks for private landlords were cut back years ago and many are quitting because of the fifty percent income tax rate including prsi on rental income. Capital improvements as opposed to maintenance costs can't be expensed for taxes.

    Real estate investment trusts get a favourable tax structure on condition they pay out most of their earnings which then are taxed in shareholders' hands.

    Lowering of apartment guidelines lowered ridiculous red tape requiring unrealistically large apartment sizes and expensive lifts to cater to structures with unnecessary dual aspect windows on opposite sides. This red tape was designed by politicians to please NIMBY home owners by slowing down housing building.

    Government announcements about housing plans and strategies should be viewed sceptically given past failures to deliver on promises.

    Builders are not charities but they will build if the government removes unfavourable conditions on housing infrastructure and planning. After all, they built most of the housing you see around you.

    You need to take a course in economics and accountancy 101 if you think the tax on vacant land isn't punitive or maybe you are a hard leftie?
    Last edited by Patslatt1; 16th May 2018 at 01:13 PM.
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  4. #4
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    Irish planning policy is deeply dysfunctional. And at the very centre of that madness are the local authorities, who are now doing all they can to make people desperate for local authority housing.

    Because that is a prop for their political rackets. It makes docile, obedient, grateful voters, who are prepared to ignore serial incompetence, empty virtue signalling and pointless posturing.

    Dublin needs to be build like a city, not a phekkin village. There is NO shortage of building space. There is a restriction on builing that creates shortages.
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  5. #5
    Patslatt1 Patslatt1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    Irish planning policy is deeply dysfunctional. And at the very centre of that madness are the local authorities, who are now doing all they can to make people desperate for local authority housing.

    Because that is a prop for their political rackets. It makes docile, obedient, grateful voters, who are prepared to ignore serial incompetence, empty virtue signalling and pointless posturing.

    Dublin needs to be build like a city, not a phekkin village. There is NO shortage of building space. There is a restriction on builing that creates shortages.
    Politically motivated planning red tape panders to NIMBY home owners who constantly beg politicians, planners and courts to block housing development on spurious environmental grounds exploited in planning regulations.
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  6. #6
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    Politically motivated planning red tape panders to NIMBY home owners who constantly beg politicians, planners and courts to block housing development on spurious environmental grounds exploited in planning regulations.
    The purpose of Irish planning policy is to accomodate banks, and political machines. There was a time when construction developers were part of the racket. But that is no longer the case.

    Which means that policy is now more favourable to bankers, quangocrats and politicians.
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  7. #7
    Pizza Man Pizza Man is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitchcock View Post

    There has been more than enough incentivising of the private sector to build through tax incentives, Strategic Development Zones, Strategic Housing Development, lowering of apartment guidelines etc.

    .....

    The reason builders are not building houses is because they are profit driven, and they can't make enough money from building affordable houses hence irrespective of the the actual social need for houses they won't budge.
    Isn't there a gaping logical lacuna between the two paragraphs quoted above?
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  8. #8
    Patslatt1 Patslatt1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    The purpose of Irish planning policy is to accomodate banks, and political machines. There was a time when construction developers were part of the racket. But that is no longer the case.

    Which means that policy is now more favourable to bankers, quangocrats and politicians.
    The rise in housing prices from a strangled housing supply since the Celtic tiger crash has helped recovery of valuations of under water bank mortgages where the house valuations were less than the mortgages. Unfortuntely,the cost to low and moderate income people of exploding housing costs is now the main cause of poverty and inequality.
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  9. #9
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    The rise in housing prices from a strangled housing supply since the Celtic tiger crash has helped recovery of valuations of under water bank mortgages where the house valuations were less than the mortgages. Unfortuntely,the cost to low and moderate income people of exploding housing costs is now the main cause of poverty and inequality.
    In other words, the authorities have bailed out the banks, and pushed up the cost of living. And the same authorities are now posing as the solution, via more market rigging/intervention.

    This society is increasingly run like a racket.
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  10. #10
    Travis Bickle Travis Bickle is offline
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    We need to stop propping up the housing market. If people can't afford your properties, either lower your prices or get a new career. No other business gets the tax payer funded assist like housing. Prices are artificially high. Instead of keeping them high with grants, subsidies and rental aid, and financing private builds with NAMA/our money, build social housing.
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