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  1. #1
    Patslatt1 Patslatt1 is offline

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    Article 116 of the Lisbon Treaty could be used to end low Irish corporate tax rates. Entrepreneurs to substitute for multinational investment?

    In debates about voting for the Lisbon Treaty, article 116 Article 116 was barely mentioned and the sovereignty of EU states over taxation was supposedly unchanged. Yet Article 116 basically only requires a vote of the European Parliament to challenge taxation that allegedly distorts markets.

    Yesterday in an interview on Pat Kenny's Newstalk show, a europhile observer said that times move on and,as if sovereignty over taxation were trivial, he expected Ireland to cave in to pressure from France and Germany on our low corporate tax rate now that support for our position from UK is gone with Brexit. Kenny thought that small countries would back us. But most of them don't need low corporate tax rates given the competitive advantage of extremely low labour costs in central and eastern Europe and of indigeneous entrepreneurs and companies in western Europe.

    The loss of control of corporate tax rates would be a major blow to national sovereignty and maybe a bridge too far towards a federal European state. It would also call for a thorough revision of Irish governmnt policies and strategies to compensate for the likely reduction in inward investment from multinationals.

    An emphasis on encouraging indigeneous entrepreneurs and attracting foreign entrepreneurs would help. Increased government funding for venture capital in partnership with private companies, tax breaks and small grants for startups and offering residency to foreign investors who start businesses are proven measures internationally.

    In addition,the education system needs to turn out more STEM graduates, which requires recruitment of more science and maths teachers in schools. To pay them competitively with pay in industry, many would have to be paid a premium over average teachers' pay. Trade union resistance would likely prevent that, however. Another barrier to entry is the prolonged two years postgraduate teachers' training degree for secondary teachers which was raised from one year to please unions.
    Last edited by Patslatt1; 2nd December 2017 at 04:37 AM.
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  2. #2
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    In debates about voting for the Lisbon Treaty, article 116 Article 116 was barely mentioned and the sovereignty of EU states over taxation was supposedly unchanged. Yet Article 116 basically only requires a vote of the European Parliament to challenge taxation that allegedly distorts markets.

    Yesterday in an interview on Pat Kenny's Newstalk show, a europhile observer said that times move on and,as if sovereignty over taxation were trivial, he expected Ireland to cave in to pressure from France and Germany on our low corporate tax rate now that support for our position from UK is gone with Brexit. Kenny thought that small countries would back us. But most of them don't need low corporate tax rates given the competitive advantage of extremely low labour costs in central and eastern Europe and of indigeneous entrepreneurs and companies in western Europe.

    The loss of control of corporate tax rates would be a major blow to national sovereignty and maybe a bridge too far towards a federal European state. It would also call for a thorough revision of Irish governmnt policies and strategies to compensate for the likely reduction in inward investment from multinationals.

    An emphasis on encouraging indigeneous entrepreneurs and attracting foreign entrepreneurs would help. Increased government funding for venture capital in partnership with private companies, tax breaks and small grants for startups and offering residency to foreign investors who start businesses are proven measures internationally.

    In addition,the education system needs to turn out more STEM graduates, which requires recruitment of more science and maths teachers in schools. To pay them competitively with pay in industry, many would have to be paid a premium over average teachers' pay. Trade union resistance would likely prevent that, however. Another barrier to entry is the prolonged two years postgraduate teachers' training degree for secondary teachers which was raised from one year to please unions.
    Inevitable ....

    If we are relying on Brussels to back us over Brexit

    - then will want a pound or 2 of our flesh

    - in return....

    I voted NO BTW
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  3. #3
    Northsideman Northsideman is offline
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    Get used to it. We are small fry in the scheme of things and will as usual be the best boys in class and say and do as told. In 1916 a stand was made against an empire now we are in a bigger much more oppressive one and the likes of FF and SF are loving it, it's a crazy world indeed.
    Last edited by Northsideman; 2nd December 2017 at 10:23 AM.
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  4. #4
    FunkyBoogaloo FunkyBoogaloo is offline
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    I suppose, in theory, it could. However any proposals put forward must be adopted using the Ordinary Legislative Procedure... which means Ireland (at the Council of Ministers) can say NO at any point and such a proposal would fall.

    I do remember corporation tax being discussed during Lisbon (not specifically Article 116 though) and here on p.ie too but it was debunked. Something about the EU not having competence over direct taxation and ECJ judgments etc on the broader matter.

    I must look it up...
    Last edited by FunkyBoogaloo; 2nd December 2017 at 08:10 AM.
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  5. #5
    FunkyBoogaloo FunkyBoogaloo is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    I voted NO BTW
    Ditto. Twice.
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  6. #6
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    Always struck by the nature of political debate over Irish official corporate tax rates as something of a mythical debate seeing as no corporate pays anywhere approaching even the official low rate in Ireland and if they do they get it back in rebate form.

    Mind you at least there is something of an equivalence across Europe and the US in that regard as none of the MSNs pay their official corporation tax rates either.

    So what we have in terms of tax rates for corporates across Europe and the US is very much the sight of a group of multilingual bald men fighting over an entirely fictional comb.
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  7. #7
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    Inevitable ....

    If we are relying on Brussels to back us over Brexit

    - then will want a pound or 2 of our flesh

    - in return....

    I voted NO BTW
    They do have a tendency to ************************ one over in return.
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  8. #8
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    Always struck by the nature of political debate over Irish official corporate tax rates as something of a mythical debate seeing as no corporate pays anywhere approaching even the official low rate in Ireland and if they do they get it back in rebate form.

    Mind you at least there is something of an equivalence across Europe and the US in that regard as none of the MSNs pay their official corporation tax rates either.

    So what we have in terms of tax rates for corporates across Europe and the US is very much the sight of a group of multilingual bald men fighting over an entirely fictional comb.
    A well made point
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  9. #9
    Seanetta Seanetta is offline

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    Looks like Donald's got his way with tax cuts

    US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill - BBC News
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  10. #10
    making waves making waves is offline
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    The OP should read ..........could be used to end Ireland's ability to act as a tax haven for tax dodging clonglomerates.
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