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  1. #11
    Voluntary Voluntary is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntary View Post
    anybody knows what's the status of these 108 homes?
    found it, seems NIMBY won that battle

    Massive Mount Merrion development given the axe following strong local objection - Dublin Live
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  2. #12
    im axeled im axeled is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    Shane Ross of closet Fine Gael is one of the biggest NIMBY 's in the history of the state.
    with comical alaan in a dead heat for that position
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  3. #13
    im axeled im axeled is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson View Post
    NIMBY isn't the problem.
    Dublin has plenty of land outside of NIMBY areas.

    Look at build costs, then look at build costs + all taxes, levies, contributions etc.
    Combine that with mortgages being limited by salary & deposits (a good thing !) and the ordinary punter cannot afford a property.
    So the developers don't build.

    The government needs to eliminate VAT on property built & sold over the next 4 years.
    It also needs to force DCC to permit high-rise in the city centre.

    We don't have a NIMBY problem.
    We don't have a housing problem.
    We have a tax & planning problem.
    we have a casterated goverment, if the attacked the housing problems as they are attacking the car drivers, it would be fixed by christmas
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  4. #14
    im axeled im axeled is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntary View Post
    with lord ross having a seaat in goverment, that was a certainty
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  5. #15
    im axeled im axeled is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    Mortgage credit has dried up, thanks to endless legal delays on housing repossessions. It seems Celtic Tiger home owners in mortgage defaults deserve sympathy comparable to rackrented 19th century Irish tenant farmers who rented a few acres for growing potatoes to feed their families.
    wjth the banks having to be bailed out, then the vulture funds with a red ribbion invitation to purchase blocks of reposessed propertys, how can there be any homes for sale, never mind rent for a reassonable fee
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  6. #16
    Taidhg Gaelach Taidhg Gaelach is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    Mortgage credit has dried up, thanks to endless legal delays on housing repossessions. It seems Celtic Tiger home owners in mortgage defaults deserve sympathy comparable to rackrented 19th century Irish tenant farmers who rented a few acres for growing potatoes to feed their families.
    Well, you have to consider where did mortgage credit come from during the bubble. It was from outside Ireland. Those sources dried up for reasons that Ireland would have had no control over - even if our régime had behaved itself. Regarding repossessions, it's interesting that Moody's favours the current policy of mortgage restructuring rather than repossession.

    https://www.moodys.com/research/Mood...ors--PR_361287


    And, of course, quite apart from the disruptive effects of large scale repossessions to asset prices, we must consider that housing does have other functions than bank profitability. There is the question of homes being needed by real Irish families, who must supply our nation with our future generations of children. As for nonperforming loans to property speculators, as opposed to genuine families, as we see with the AIB sale to a Goldman Sachs vulture fund, there is a market for these loans. AIB must have taken a hell of a haircut when they were too embarrassed to let anyone know what Goldman paid, but the point is that such loan books can be shifted.

    But, needless to say, that raises another fundamental question. Rather than selling those loans off dirt cheap to Goldman Sachs, would it not have been far more socially responsible for the government here, though its bank AIB, to sell those homes to real Irish families who are currently excluded from owning a home by lack of collateral. Young, healthy, heterosexual couples should be helped into these houses. Their repayments would then be lowered with each Irish baby they give to the nation. In that way, we can reverse the death of our people and produce a thriving nation.
    Last edited by Taidhg Gaelach; 18th April 2017 at 09:15 PM.
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  7. #17
    mr_anderson mr_anderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntary View Post
    Planning restrictions and NIMBY opposition impose very high land prices. We have 'affordable' land available outside NIMBY interest areas and that's why Dublin is spreading to Longford. Majority of current development happens in semi remote locations. It's like copying America but they at least have 6 lanes+ motorway network so people are kind of able to commute tens of miles from their 4 bed houses to work.

    Planning restrictions and NIMBY opposition impose very high land prices.
    That I agree with.

    But NIMBY isn't stopping high-rise in Dublin City Centre.
    Those deciding on DCC planning don't necessarily live in the city centre.
    I've gone for planning on a couple of projects within DCC, but none have encountered local opposition - none.
    Yet some have still been turned down.

    It's not the locals.
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  8. #18
    Man or Mouse Man or Mouse is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    Ireland's biggest cities have modest populations by international standards, so housing should be cheap. The main reason it isn't cheap is the NIMBYS-the "Not in My Backyard" home owners who opposes all housing building in their locality, often under environmental pretexts.

    Unfortunately, existing home owners who dominate council elections include a high proportion of NIMBYS. Naturally, councils and councillors in big cities like Dublin,Cork and Galway are sensitive to NIMBYISM and pass regulations to hobble housing development or underfund housing infrastructure. The national government is also sensitive to NIMBYS who often approach TDs about preventing housing projects.

    Despite this,some progress was made in recent years. Former Environment Minister Kelly removed the setting of technical house building standards from councils and centralised it in his department because councils' standards were becoming too stringent, including excessive apartment sizes in Dublin and dual aspect windows that added substantially to costs. He also should have remove planning permissions from councils, though leaving council planning offices in place for local knowledge. If housing building fails to meet government targets this year, Housing Minister Coveney should do so.

    The political influence of NIMBYS is completely underestimated by Irish media who ought to report on the situation like this article on Seattle https://thecisforcrank.com/2017/04/0...wer-structure/
    That is not the entirety of their input to so many things wrong around the country. The NIMBYs also saw to it that Coty/Proctor & Gamble were not allowed build a wind turbine to cut electrical costs. Effect? Factory is closing down with loss of over 200 jobs.

    Well done NIMBYs.
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  9. #19
    Man or Mouse Man or Mouse is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson View Post
    NIMBY isn't the problem.
    Dublin has plenty of land outside of NIMBY areas.

    Look at build costs, then look at build costs + all taxes, levies, contributions etc.
    Combine that with mortgages being limited by salary & deposits (a good thing !) and the ordinary punter cannot afford a property.
    So the developers don't build.

    The government needs to eliminate VAT on property built & sold over the next 4 years.
    It also needs to force DCC to permit high-rise in the city centre.

    We don't have a NIMBY problem.
    We don't have a housing problem.
    We have a tax & planning problem.
    The last one there is exacerbated by a lack of imagination. So many of the levies and charges you mention should be spread out over 40/50 years rather than a lump sum front loaded on the price of a house.

    This of course would mean a real property tax regime where taxes pay for specific things. We couldn't have that in Ireland though, could we, where government is brow beaten by a rabble of pay for nothing water protesters and their mouthy spokespeople.
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  10. #20
    Patslatt1 Patslatt1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by im axeled View Post
    wjth the banks having to be bailed out, then the vulture funds with a red ribbion invitation to purchase blocks of reposessed propertys, how can there be any homes for sale, never mind rent for a reassonable fee
    Not to mention the bonkers help to buy grants which will blind first time buyers to housing price rises in their myopic focus on the grants.

    Some of the big REITS ie tax sheltered real estate investment trusts, will be interested in investing in new apartment builds if they gain confidence in three years time that strict rent controls will be ended in the fourth year as promised. Sometimes,strict temporary rent controls have a nasty habit of becoming permanent going by international experience. Minister Coveney is responsible for this rent controls idiocy which no serious economists support, even those on the political left.

    Continuation of strict rent controls, especially the idiotic requirement that freed up apartments must be let at the old rents, would put an end to all investing in rental property. In Ontario, Canada, after strict rent controls were introduced in the 1970s inflation, the boom in construction of rental apartment projects abruptly ended and not a single new private sector project started until strict rent controls were phased out in the late 1990s. Apartment buildings under construction for rental were switched to condo sales.
    Last edited by Patslatt1; 19th April 2017 at 01:18 AM.
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