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  1. #1
    robut robut is offline

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    Irish Corporation Tax review - 80% paid by foreign multinationals - State exposed

    Warning over foreign multinationals paying 80pc of corporate tax - Independent.ie PUBLISHED - 22/02/2017

    About 80pc of corporation tax paid in Ireland is from foreign multinationals, leaving the State exposed to shocks, the Department of Finance has said.

    A handful of companies pay most of the tax.

    "Irish corporation tax receipts are highly concentrated, with 0.2pc of corporation tax cases contributing 65.3pc in net receipts," the Department said, in a document accompanying the consultation note.
    I would imagine a substantial amount of indiginous small business, apparently backbone of the country, would pay little or no Corporation Tax because their is nothing left / no profit left to charge CT on after everything else is paid? (I am genuinely in this boat )

    What does this tell us? If most CT is paid by Foreign Multinationals does it mean that most indiginous Irish SMEs are actually struggling, just about staying above water? OR are many/most actually "fiddling" the books some way to show no profit, which will probably be an accusation made by some here?

    My reply is successive Irish Governments have concentrated on FDI but only and always paid lip service to local indiginous small to medium business. Not great support ..

    To the broader Q - it would seem we are off again with eggs in one basket. One trick pony. Dependence on this "12.5%" corporation tax which now is under attack from EU, UK Brexit and Trump ( US may drop to 15% soon )

    Thoughts PIE'ers ...
    Last edited by robut; 22nd February 2017 at 02:08 PM.
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  2. #2
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    Warning over foreign multinationals paying 80pc of corporate tax - Independent.ie



    I would imagine a substantial amount of indiginous small business, apparently backbone of the country, would pay little or no Corporation Tax because their is nothing left / no profit left to charge CT on after everything else is paid? (I am genuinely in this boat )

    What does this tell us? If most CT is paid by Foreign Multinationals does it mean that most indiginous Irish SMEs are actually struggling, just about staying above water? OR are many/most actually "fiddling" the books some way to show no profit, which will probably be an accusation made by some here?

    My reply is successive Irish Governments have concentrated on FDI but only and always paid lip service to local indiginous small to medium business. Not great support ..

    To the broader Q - it would seem we are off again with eggs in one basket. One trick pony. Dependence on this "12.5%" corporation tax which now is under attack from EU, UK Brexit and Trump ( US may drop to 15% soon )

    Thoughts PIE'ers ...
    I am in the same boat as you. Unlikely to be still afloat next year. Just finished P35 and people will have to go sadly. SMEs are still being hammered with no effort by government to alleviate the problem. If the EU manages to strong arm us into abandoning the 12.5% rate we are in big big trouble. 2008 will be a picnic.
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  3. #3
    robut robut is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    I am in the same boat as you. Unlikely to be still afloat next year. Just finished P35 and people will have to go sadly. SMEs are still being hammered with no effort by government to alleviate the problem. If the EU manages to strong arm us into abandoning the 12.5% rate we are in big big trouble. 2008 will be a picnic.
    Yes .. sorry to hear this. I am on my own, just about keeping head above water. Im bemused by all this boom stuff coming from Dublin, feel like Im in a different country. Have had calls since early January to now from many of my really small SME friends in panic, wondering why its so quiet this year so far. Afraid it was them only, but it aint it seems ..
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  4. #4
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    Warning over foreign multinationals paying 80pc of corporate tax - Independent.ie



    I would imagine a substantial amount of indiginous small business, apparently backbone of the country, would pay little or no Corporation Tax because their is nothing left / no profit left to charge CT on after everything else is paid? (I am genuinely in this boat )

    What does this tell us? If most CT is paid by Foreign Multinationals does it mean that most indiginous Irish SMEs are actually struggling, just about staying above water? OR are many/most actually "fiddling" the books some way to show no profit, which will probably be an accusation made by some here?

    My reply is successive Irish Governments have concentrated on FDI but only and always paid lip service to local indiginous small to medium business. Not great support ..

    To the broader Q - it would seem we are off again with eggs in one basket. One trick pony. Dependence on this "12.5%" corporation tax which now is under attack from EU, UK Brexit and Trump ( US may drop to 15% soon )

    Thoughts PIE'ers ...
    We have a lot more to offer FDI companies than just our CT rate, language, culture, workforce, EU, lifestyle etc and our FDI companies are reasonably well spread in terms of industry sector.
    Our own companies provide employment while FDI companies provide the bulk of tax paid, it would be better if there was a more even spread, but it's not vital that it should be so.

    In other words something to keep in mind and look to what can reasonably be done to improve the situation, but I would think nothing drastic needs to be jumped into at this stage.
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  5. #5
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    Warning over foreign multinationals paying 80pc of corporate tax - Independent.ie

    I would imagine a substantial amount of indiginous small business, apparently backbone of the country, would pay little or no Corporation Tax because their is nothing left / no profit left to charge CT on after everything else is paid? (I am genuinely in this boat )

    What does this tell us? If most CT is paid by Foreign Multinationals does it mean that most indiginous Irish SMEs are actually struggling, just about staying above water? OR are many/most actually "fiddling" the books some way to show no profit, which will probably be an accusation made by some here?

    My reply is successive Irish Governments have concentrated on FDI but only and always paid lip service to local indiginous small to medium business. Not great support ..

    To the broader Q - it would seem we are off again with eggs in one basket. One trick pony. Dependence on this "12.5%" corporation tax which now is under attack from EU, UK Brexit and Trump ( US may drop to 15% soon )

    Thoughts PIE'ers ...
    SMEs and the self employed etc. are taken hugely for granted in Ireland.

    Screwed at every turn and entitled to f*** all while the IDA search the world for FDI with huge enticements...

    It's a joke... but there you go...

    We're far too dependent on FDI... but that's the way it is and it would/will take a long time to develop a more balanced economy if there was a will to do that.

    More should be done to support and to try and keep indigenous businesses here instead of bringing them to a certain level only to see them sold off to the global players...
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  6. #6
    robut robut is offline

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    BTW .. ( from link in OP )

    The consultation document states that the review should look at achieving the highest international standards in tax transparency, ensuring that the corporation tax code does not provide preferential treatment to any taxpayer, deliver tax certainty for business and maintain the 12.5pc rate.

    The consultation period will run to April 4.

    The review was announced in the wake of the EU's €13bn Apple tax decision
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  7. #7
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    Yes .. sorry to hear this. I am on my own, just about keeping head above water. Im bemused by all this boom stuff coming from Dublin, feel like Im in a different country. Have had calls since early January to now from many of my really small SME friends in panic, wondering why its so quiet this year so far. Afraid it was them only, but it aint it seems ..
    They could reduce, rates and PRSI for lower paid workers. Would help me no end. But the public service fat cats must be fed.
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  8. #8
    gleeful gleeful is online now

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    The term "foreign multinational" is a bit odd. All multinationals are mobile and subject to moving jobs and capital around, regardless of where their HQ is.
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  9. #9
    Sister Mercedes Sister Mercedes is offline
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    We rely on the Corp Tax they pay and on the Income Tax their employees pay. It would be a double whammy if they withdraw.

    When's the last time the Montrose 6.1 news led with a story about small businesses? Never in my memory. The 1.4 million employed in SME's are second class citizens compared to the 300,000 employed in the public sector.
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  10. #10
    Sister Mercedes Sister Mercedes is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    They could reduce, rates and PRSI for lower paid workers. Would help me no end. But the public service fat cats must be fed.
    Lots of direct and indirect costs that are controlled by government policy or lack thereof: indemnity insurance, liability insurance, health and safety regs, other regulations and compliance costs, rents, legal fees, audit fees, insolvency costs, sickness and maternity, a national minium wage that is not suited for lower income parts of the country etc etc.
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