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  1. #11
    Mushroom Mushroom is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post

    They could reduce, rates and PRSI for lower paid workers. Would help me no end. But the public service fat cats must be fed.
    I presume that you mean employer's PRSI? I completely agree. It's unfair to load an extra 8.5% on top of a minimum hourly rate of pay that is one of the highest in the EU.

    As for 'feeding PS fat cats' are you aware that all PRSI goes into the Social Insurance Fund? It doesn't go anywhere near the PS fat cats!

    However, rates are another story.

    You didn't mention high rates of insurance - is this not another major headache for businesses?
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  2. #12
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    I presume that you mean employer's PRSI? I completely agree. It's unfair to load an extra 8.5% on top of a minimum hourly rate of pay that is one of the highest in the EU.

    As for 'feeding PS fat cats' are you aware that all PRSI goes into the Social Insurance Fund? It doesn't go anywhere near the PS fat cats!

    However, rates are another story.

    You didn't mention high rates of insurance - is this not another major headache for businesses?
    Yes insurance is a biggie as well. The fat cats I was referring to revolved around rates. Sister is also spot on regarding professional fees. Daylight robbery but there is no way to escape them.
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  3. #13
    Mushroom Mushroom is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Mercedes View Post

    Lots of direct and indirect costs that are controlled by government policy or lack thereof: health and safety regs, other regulations and compliance costs, sickness and maternity benefits, etc etc.
    But how many of these come straight from the EU? There is a solution, but .......................
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  4. #14
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    But how many of these come straight from the EU? There is a solution, but .......................
    I have no problem with health and safety regs. It is not that onerous.
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  5. #15
    robut robut is offline

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    An interesting thought crossed my mind ..

    With all these other charges and taxes to the SME .. mainly from Gov? .. These other charges and taxes are the reason their is no profit left to charge corporation tax on ... wanting cake and eat it?
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  6. #16
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    My reply is successive Irish Governments have concentrated on FDI but only and always paid lip service to local indiginous small to medium business. Not great support ..
    The biggest impediment to developing Irish companies is lack of private capital. We do not have a functioning stock market as the Irish wealthy class prefer to invest in land or property rather than manufacturing industry. This is nothing new, it probably started after the act of union where the land owning ascendancy moved to London. After independence, the state developed the semi state sector to fill the gap left by the absence of local capitalists. They tried protectionism to develop industry and abandoned it when times changed. The IDA have been spectacularly successful in identifying sectors which are willing to locate in Ireland and when special tax arrangements for exports were banned, the govt reduced the corporate tax rate for all. Our problem is not with the successful policy of attracting FDI, it remains the Irish obsession with land and property rather than stocks and shares.
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  7. #17
    gerhard dengler gerhard dengler is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    Warning over foreign multinationals paying 80pc of corporate tax - Independent.ie PUBLISHED - 22/02/2017



    I would imagine a substantial amount of indiginous small business, apparently backbone of the country, would pay little or no Corporation Tax because their is nothing left / no profit left to charge CT on after everything else is paid? (I am genuinely in this boat )

    What does this tell us? If most CT is paid by Foreign Multinationals does it mean that most indiginous Irish SMEs are actually struggling, just about staying above water? OR are many/most actually "fiddling" the books some way to show no profit, which will probably be an accusation made by some here?

    My reply is successive Irish Governments have concentrated on FDI but only and always paid lip service to local indiginous small to medium business. Not great support ..

    To the broader Q - it would seem we are off again with eggs in one basket. One trick pony. Dependence on this "12.5%" corporation tax which now is under attack from EU, UK Brexit and Trump ( US may drop to 15% soon )

    Thoughts PIE'ers ...
    The percentage figure disclosed, 80%, tells it's own story for sure.
    80% depicts at least a two tiered economy, one tier being FDI MNC's and the other tier being the indigenous sector.

    But even this tiering is a misnomer because we know that the economic activity booked here by FDI MNC's, a lot of that activity is actually generated outside of Ireland. Therefore that activity doesn't generate income taxes for example in this jurisdiction. It doesn't generate VAT in this jurisdiction either. The only tax that economic activity does generate is CT for the state.

    The wider implication of the 80% disclosure is that the generic/indigenous sector appears to be struggling.

    One other thought is that our policy makers will be more open to lobbying from the FDI MNC sector.

    This country really does need to create more sustainable industrial/economic policies
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  8. #18
    March Hare March Hare is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    Yes insurance is a biggie as well. The fat cats I was referring to revolved around rates. Sister is also spot on regarding professional fees. Daylight robbery but there is no way to escape them.

    Are these business expenses not tax deductible for the Revenue
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  9. #19
    Sister Mercedes Sister Mercedes is offline
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    The PS know this level of Corp Tax Receipts is unsustainable. Just like they knew the level of stamp duty tax receipts was unsustainable. But their motto is "make hay while the sun shines". In the years of booming tax receipts, they get contractual commitments on pay increases, lump sums, pensions, early retirement etc. Then when the boom has gone away they say "Not my problem. You're committed to paying me the money so cut elsewhere, increase tax elsewhere, but you can't touch mine."
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  10. #20
    Mushroom Mushroom is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    Are these business expenses not tax deductible for the Revenue
    Problem is that you have to make a profit before "tax deductibility" can come into play.
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