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  1. #21
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry94. View Post
    How would you pass such a referendum? All the public sector workers and their families would vote against it. It would require a massive turnout to defeat them.
    EXPOSE PANDERING POLITICIANS

    Even if the referendum lost, it would expose the shameless,socially unjust ripoff of taxpayers by public sector pigs at the pension trough. Politicians of all parties would be forced to admit an unethical conflict of interest in having their pensions tied to public sector pensions, an embarrassing admission that might force them to make a different arrangement. Apathetic young voters under 40 might wake up to how they will be shafted by huge taxes in the second half of their careers to pay for the pension extravagance of ps pensions tied to pay increases of the job once held.
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  2. #22
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by james5001 View Post
    Isn't this the issue, more than the public sector pay itself?

    The problem is that you are comparing public sector wages in the future to future private sector wages. The problem is that private sector wages should be earning more, as their income has remained static while productivity has increased enormously. Surely this is an argument to support private sector unions.
    SEPARATE ISSUE

    Don't confuse the pensions ripoff with sluggish private sector pay, a separate issue. It doesn't pay unions to organise low paid private sector workers, mainly because of the expense of organising small businesses and the intense competition that would quickly bankrupt any small business paying above the market rate of pay. As for large businesses, competition from globalisation forces their pay and that of their supply chains to adhere to market determined pay rates. The inability of unions to obtain pay increases beyond the market makes them redundant in most businesses, unfortunately.
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  3. #23
    Yogosan Yogosan is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    EXPOSE PANDERING POLITICIANS
    Apathetic young voters under 40 might wake up to how they will be shafted by huge taxes in the second half of their careers.
    There will be no tax to take by then anyway. More debt and privatisation is the plan for the forseeable future.
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  4. #24
    Odyessus Odyessus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry94. View Post
    How would you pass such a referendum? All the public sector workers and their families would vote against it. It would require a massive turnout to defeat them.
    All the public sector workers and their families would vote against it.

    And you could multiply that number by about five when you think about all the retired public sector workers and their families, amongst whom there be virtually a 100% turnout, all of them voting against any such proposal.
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  5. #25
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyessus View Post
    And you could multiply that number by about five when you think about all the retired public sector workers and their families, amongst whom there be virtually a 100% turnout, all of them voting against any such proposal.
    To repeat post 21 above:

    EXPOSE PANDERING POLITICIANS

    Even if the referendum lost, it would expose the shameless,socially unjust ripoff of taxpayers by public sector pigs at the pension trough. Politicians of all parties would be forced to admit an unethical conflict of interest in having their pensions tied to public sector pensions, an embarrassing admission that might force them to make a different arrangement. Apathetic young voters under 40 might wake up to how they will be shafted by huge taxes in the second half of their careers to pay for the pension extravagance of ps pensions tied to pay increases of the job once held.
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  6. #26
    Henry94. Henry94. is offline
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    Referendums don't happen to raise awareness.
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  7. #27
    Conor Conor is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    An insidious feature of Irish public sector pensions is that pensions rise automatically with the pay of the job once held.
    No they don't.
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  8. #28
    Texal Tom Texal Tom is offline
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    I went into teaching aged 30. If I retire at 60 I'll have 30 years done. So I'll have 3/4 of half my pay.

    My last years gross was 58K - divide this by 2 = 29k multiply by 3/4 (.75) = 21.75K

    21.75 = €418 / week gross. I will be taxed on this so my actual pension will be in the 3 hundreds. I will have paid into this for 30 years. I probably will have to pay my own medical expenses as I won't be entitled to a medical card until I am 70.

    If on the other hand I have never worked a day in my life or contributed to my pension I will get the state pension which is €220 I think - I will no doubt get a whole array of extra allowances including free medical which is very expensive and no doubt at retirement age things start to play up medically.

    So I reckon that I will probably be about €150 better off than someone who has never worked a day in their life - this difference will be reduced somewhat by the suite of allowances the non worker will gain - As a home owner I will also have to pay all the usual charges / home tax / water tax / house insurance / running repairs. I suspect that I might be about €50 better off that the person who has never done a single days work.

    I just wonder Op - how much less do you think that I should be getting for my life time of contributing to my pension?

    The above figures are guestimates - I would welcome someone who works in finance to put more shape in them. I also plan to retire before I am 60 and 60 is my retirement age so I will be hit even further.
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  9. #29
    crossman crossman is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texal Tom View Post

    If on the other hand I have never worked a day in my life or contributed to my pension I will get the state pension which is €220 I think - I will no doubt get a whole array of extra allowances including free medical which is very expensive and no doubt at retirement age things start to play up medically.

    So I reckon that I will probably be about €150 better off than someone who has never worked a day in their life - this difference will be reduced somewhat by the suite of allowances the non worker will gain
    That is the nub of the issue. The OP forgets to mention that the public service pension incorporates the OAP. He also complains that public service pensions are linked to the grade in question. A lot of good that did anyone for the last six years!
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  10. #30
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texal Tom View Post
    I went into teaching aged 30. If I retire at 60 I'll have 30 years done. So I'll have 3/4 of half my pay.

    My last years gross was 58K - divide this by 2 = 29k multiply by 3/4 (.75) = 21.75K

    21.75 = €418 / week gross. I will be taxed on this so my actual pension will be in the 3 hundreds. I will have paid into this for 30 years. I probably will have to pay my own medical expenses as I won't be entitled to a medical card until I am 70.

    If on the other hand I have never worked a day in my life or contributed to my pension I will get the state pension which is €220 I think - I will no doubt get a whole array of extra allowances including free medical which is very expensive and no doubt at retirement age things start to play up medically.

    So I reckon that I will probably be about €150 better off than someone who has never worked a day in their life - this difference will be reduced somewhat by the suite of allowances the non worker will gain - As a home owner I will also have to pay all the usual charges / home tax / water tax / house insurance / running repairs. I suspect that I might be about €50 better off that the person who has never done a single days work.

    I just wonder Op - how much less do you think that I should be getting for my life time of contributing to my pension?

    The above figures are guestimates - I would welcome someone who works in finance to put more shape in them. I also plan to retire before I am 60 and 60 is my retirement age so I will be hit even further.
    INVALID COMPARISON

    Why don't you compare your pension situation with that of many private sector workers? They also have to pay home costs and medical fees.

    Your retirement at 60 is five years before the retirement age for state pensions, so you start off ahead 5 x 21.75K= €110,000. Plus you are entitled to a whopping tax free lump sum. Plus your pension traditionally rises with the pay of the job,whereas private sector workers' pension arrangements depend on a)the old age pension (a lot smaller than your pension) which is not likely to rise that fast and b) for a minority who have saved, interest on fixed income investment and annuities. However,you may also have savings as teachers are good at saving, so point b doesn't count in the favour of the private sector worker. Of course, some self employed business people have become rich but many of them lose everything, with business startup failures being around 80% after about four years.
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