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  1. #11
    ted08 ted08 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    The judges' pay referendum was budgetary in a sense.
    Because the judiciary powers are separate per the constitution therefore a referendum was required specifically for them. PS pensions in general is a budgetary policy at the discretion of the Dail.
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  2. #12
    Henry94. Henry94. is offline
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    How would you pass such a referendum? All the public sector workers and their families would vote against it. It would require a massive turnout to defeat them.
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  3. #13
    robut robut is offline

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    Private pension levy hits workers for

    And meanwhile the total amount taken by government private pension levy ( FROM OUR MEAGER PRIVATE PENSION FUNDS ) since 2011 comes to €2.393 BILLION.

    The cash is all going one way it seems ..

    And before any PS person says they had a pension levy too. That was an increase in contribution toward their future pension, not a levy in that it has a future benefit .. they will get back that via their pension. People with private pensions will NEVER see that €2.393 Billion again.
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  4. #14
    robut robut is offline

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    And from 2012, probably not much changed:

    Pensions crisis will mean later retirement - Independent.ie

    The average size of a private pension fund at retirement is just €100,000. This would provide an annual income of as little as €3,500 a year, according to Jerry Moriarty of the Irish Association of Pensions Funds.
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  5. #15
    NeilW NeilW is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    The referendum should abolish the pension entitlement to pay increases in line with the job once held, to be substituted for pension increases in line with the old age pension or general inflation at the discretion of the government. Trade unions shouldn't get too militant over that.
    Then can we have a referendum about halving your state pension? Just yours, btw, no-one else's. Times are tough, you understand.
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  6. #16
    NeilW NeilW is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by robut View Post
    they will get back that via their pension
    Can you explain how?
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  7. #17
    james5001 james5001 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    While that burden was tolerable in a young work force supporting relatively few pensioners, it will require crippling taxation in about 15 years when there will be about two workers for every dependent person including pensioners. Many of those future workers will be earning low incomes, so the burden will have to be carried by maybe 1.5 workers per dependent, some of them earning after tax incomes less than many pensions.
    Isn't this the issue, more than the public sector pay itself?

    The problem is that you are comparing public sector wages in the future to future private sector wages. The problem is that private sector wages should be earning more, as their income has remained static while productivity has increased enormously. Surely this is an argument to support private sector unions.
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  8. #18
    Amnesiac Amnesiac is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ted08 View Post
    Because the judiciary powers are separate per the constitution therefore a referendum was required specifically for them. PS pensions in general is a budgetary policy at the discretion of the Dail.
    And I imagine he wants to take the issue out of the hands of future Dáils.
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  9. #19
    peader odonnell peader odonnell is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by General Urko View Post
    And there is a massive cruel irony that most trade union members are private sector workers who are the very ones being ridden red raw up the jacksy by their employers and the public sector insider rubbish lotto winners!
    Always thought that the public sector had the vast majority of union members as very few private sector workers were unionised ,you sure?
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  10. #20
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ted08 View Post
    Because the judiciary powers are separate per the constitution therefore a referendum was required specifically for them. PS pensions in general is a budgetary policy at the discretion of the Dail.
    CONFLICT OF INTEREST
    The Dail members are turkeys who won't vote for Christmas. They would be voting against their self interest to cut public sector pensions entitlements to which their own pensions are tied. This is clearly an unethical arrangement that puts their own remuneration in a conflict of interest with that of the public they are supposed to represent. Their pensions should be linked to the pensions of professional people in unstable occupations like politics, such as independent small practitioners in law, accountancy, estate agency etc. But such a reform isn't likely anytime soon. Also, reversing contractual entitlements to pensions tied to the pay increases of the job once held which has been a long term custom may not be possible through budgetary actions alone.

    So it looks like the only reform solution is a referendum on this issue.
    Last edited by patslatt; 1st February 2016 at 01:11 AM.
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