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  1. #141
    Dan_Murphy Dan_Murphy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by clearmurk View Post
    So as I understand this, anyone can start their own crypto currency - it's just a question of the ability to generate a critical mass?

    So we could have DodgyBankCoin, DodgyWaterCompanyCoin, DodgyPoliceForceCoin, DodgyGovernmentCoin, etc?
    Yup.

    Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations | Bitcoin Ripple Litecoin Peercoin Dogecoin Nxt Mastercoin Namecoin ProtoShares Quark and more...

    Would be easy enough to make one too. Since the bitcoin protocol is open source all you need to do is generate your own genesis block, which is the first block in the blockchain. Unlike the other blocks which contains details of all bitcoin transactions, this one block contains arbitrary data.

    Some trivia for you. The data in the genesis block for Bitcoin is the text "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks".
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  2. #142
    clearmurk clearmurk is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Murphy View Post
    Yup.

    Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations | Bitcoin Ripple Litecoin Peercoin Dogecoin Nxt Mastercoin Namecoin ProtoShares Quark and more...

    Would be easy enough to make one too. Since the bitcoin protocol is open source all you need to do is generate your own genesis block, which is the first block in the blockchain. Unlike the other blocks which contains details of all bitcoin transactions, this one block contains arbitrary data.

    Some trivia for you. The data in the genesis block for Bitcoin is the text "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks".
    So it could be battle of the Coins...

    Could I run ClearmurkCoin over the Bitcoin infrastructure for free?
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  3. #143
    Dan_Murphy Dan_Murphy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by clearmurk View Post
    So it could be battle of the Coins...

    Could I run ClearmurkCoin over the Bitcoin infrastructure for free?
    You could use the code, but the protocol is P2P, you would need other people using ClearmurkCoins too.
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  4. #144
    ShinnerBot No.32564844524 ShinnerBot No.32564844524 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainwreck View Post
    Because bitcoin is a completely irrelevant fad in the word of finance. And a microscopic one at that.

    I pay attention to stuff that matters.
    The stuff that matters?

    Prior to now, international money transmission and accounting reconciliation have required highly controlled high security proprietary systems such as paypal, sepa, western union which require massive efforts in establishing endpoints and trust in over 200 regulatory jurisdictions around the world.

    The technology behind bitcoin has just marginalised those efforts and opened up a universe of new financial instruments that create networks that require no trust, and you think that this isn't "stuff that matters"?

    I sincerely hope you aren't working in the Irish financial sector, as these "I don't need to know anything about this newfangled stuff because I already know everything to know" attitudes present among certain sections of the Irish population are not just anti-innovation, but in light of the regulatory failure during the Irish financial crisis such attitudes are also patently dangerous to our society and have a retarding effect to say the least on our capacities/potential.
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  5. #145
    hammer hammer is offline
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    The gullible have lost money again.

    Prize Bonds / Cash should be enough diversification for most.
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  6. #146
    clearmurk clearmurk is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Murphy View Post
    You could use the code, but the protocol is P2P, you would need other people using ClearmurkCoins too.
    So here's a proposal.

    Instead of spending billions putting up power lines to transport wind-power out of the country, how about we invest the money in crypto-coin harvesting data centres.

    Each data centre could be located close to a major wind farm, obviating the need for all those cross-country power lines. The intermittent electrical output wouldn't really be a huge problem, just slow operations every now and then, and the output, mined crypto-coins easily transported elsewhere over a telephone line. And look at all the building jobs!

    How about it Entreprise Irelande?

    As Bitcoin Infrastructure Booms, Mining Heads to the Data Center
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  7. #147
    ShinnerBot No.32564844524 ShinnerBot No.32564844524 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer View Post
    The gullible have lost money again.

    Prize Bonds / Cash should be enough diversification for most.
    Funny that, the same "common sense" told us that we were stupid not to be getting in to property so long ago. Strange that we don't refer to the mortgage bag holders as "gullible".

    Risk/Reward/Innovation - Don't risk what you can't afford to lose, understand that success takes risk and that complete avoidance of risk returns nothing but mediocrity, and in a competitive world this isn't an option.
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  8. #148
    Dan_Murphy Dan_Murphy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by clearmurk View Post
    So here's a proposal.

    Instead of spending billions putting up power lines to transport wind-power out of the country, how about we invest the money in crypto-coin harvesting data centres.

    Each data centre could be located close to a major wind farm, obviating the need for all those cross-country power lines. The intermittent electrical output wouldn't really be a huge problem, just slow operations every now and then, and the output, mined crypto-coins easily transported elsewhere over a telephone line. And look at all the building jobs!

    How about it Entreprise Irelande?

    As Bitcoin Infrastructure Booms, Mining Heads to the Data Center
    Could work, but Bitcoin uses a stupid amount of energy as it is.

    Fascinating Number: Bitcoin Mining Uses $15 Million's Worth Of Electricity Every Day - Forbes

    Though, to say that for sure I would need to be able to measure it against the consumption by Paypal, Visa and MasterCard...
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  9. #149
    Orbit v2 Orbit v2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinnerBot No.32564844524 View Post
    The stuff that matters?

    Prior to now, international money transmission and accounting reconciliation have required highly controlled high security proprietary systems such as paypal, sepa, western union which require massive efforts in establishing endpoints and trust in over 200 regulatory jurisdictions around the world.

    The technology behind bitcoin has just marginalised those efforts and opened up a universe of new financial instruments that create networks that require no trust, and you think that this isn't "stuff that matters"?
    There are some truly ingenious elements to Bitcoin, but in practice, most people involved have only limited understanding of how it works. These people have to have complete faith in whatever organisations or software they end up interacting with. Even people who understand it well enough still have to trust the software. The Mtgox fiasco has opened all kinds of other issues: like the dilemma of whether to store bitcoins on your own computer, thus risking losing it the way you might lose music or photos if your hard drive crashes, or should you use an online wallet (ie bank) like Mtgox, with the risk that it might go belly-up taking your money with it. The lack of centralised control is a two-edged sword. Yes, it means there is no central authority imposing a tax on transactions, or interfering in other ways but there is also little to no protection for consumers.
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  10. #150
    cathalrh cathalrh is offline

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    Thankfully, most of those energy usage numbers are based on a GPUís Joule/Hash ratio, and itís all ASICs these days. The expense is largely the upfront chip cost.
    I wouldnít bother making a Bitcoin clone; itís a point and click operation and almost none of them add any real value. Peercoinís Proof of Stake is clever, but leads to itís becoming a pyramid scheme. If you want to make your own cryptocurrency, make a centralised one and provide stability. Take Bitcoins in and sell them for a basket of currencies, then redeem them for the same basket via Bitcoin. Use OpenTransactions or similar. Contact me if youíre genuinely interested. Iím interested in making a new type of decentralised currency over the next couple of years if anyoneís interested, but it requires that enough people have access to secure hardware. PM me.

    Good question, Sister Mercedes. It canít. Bitcoinís volatility make it comically inappropriate for use as a store of value or unit of account. Like most good protocols, it does one thing and does that thing almost perfectly.

    In its most trivial application as a decentralised payment network, the way to derive value from Bitcoin isnít to own ďoneĒ, but to send them. Keep your EUR on an exchange and only buy Bitcoin to send immediately, which your counterparty sells instantly. The price will obviously undergo a random walk as transactions wax and wane, but it doesnít matter if the price of a Bitcoin is ten dollars or ten million dollars the day after you settle a bill for X amount.

    The advantages are that you can send large or small amounts quickly, securely and cheaply. It does a bunch of other magical stuff, too. Sometimes it isnít cheaper to use, especially when the recipient was using Mt. Gox, which is why Iím so thrilled to see it go. Like many Bitcoin related tasks, this is still a bit of a hassle, but easily automatable, especially if startups were able to operate in any kind of a sane regulatory environment.

    And I mean what I say about price; itís the least interesting metric in Bitcoin. What defines ďaĒ Bitcoin is the arbitrary placing of a decimal point in a number of Satoshis. Since the precision at which the network operates will just be increased if the price goes above tens of thousands of dollars, itís an odd datum on which to fixate. Fiat market depth is much more relevant.

    I find the whole thing very intuitive, but the disadvantages are miriad. Mt. Gox had been obviously insolvent for almost a year, and desynced from the other exchanges, but people kept sending money there because they insist on speculating. Itís rather like using the internet in the 90s. It was still a good technology, but that doesnít stop bubbles from forming. In fact, that may just be the normal process of price discovery. Nor is this necessarily the implementation that will go mainstream. Were Bitcoin to crash, it could arguably be good for cryptocurrency in the abstract, as it would result in a burst of alternatives.
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