Originally Posted by Bonsai Experiment

When this bubble bursts we are going to find ourselves at sea without so much as a water-wing to keep us afloat having exhausted all other bubble flotation devices i.e. Construction and property, and having failed to build a durable domestic economy. In fact sustainable domestic exports have been undermined by the attention on growth in the tech sector.

Perhaps you might explain exactly what you mean by 'sustainable domestic exports', and in what way our domestic economy not is 'durable' and how it might be made so.

Originally Posted by paulp

If as a country, we build up huge capability in the construction sector, we're in trouble when the bubble collapses, as you can't build houses and export them (not really!)

With ICT capability, there will always be a demand for these skills. If there is not, it is hard to imagine what other skill set would be useful.

Yes, but they aren't native skills. A huge percentage of IT jobs in Ireland are filled by workers from outside the state and the work is fluid, it can go and be done elsewhere. There is no tranche of ICT experts or unique research being done in Ireland. If the jobs go, and they can, the workers go too. Ireland needs an identifiable and not easily replicated anchor for ICT, that means not tax-based (though it does of course help), to continue to grow in the ICT sector. Not doing so is a lost opportunity.

In the same way you mention the construction sector. At a time of unprecedented construction in the country (Residential, commercial and industrial) we never sought to innovate in that sector. We stuck to the old methods. We could have, based on the enormous revenues generated and the huge market which existed, innovated in pre-farbication construction. We didn't. When the boom burst we were left with nothing unique to offer any other market.

Originally Posted by robut

In ICT myself and concur with Constantin and the OP.

IT and ICT is thrown around by the Media constantly and very loosely. IT/ICT is a huge area. However the 5000 unfilled jobs are in a subset of IT/ICT here. This subset area is generally in and around software development ( Gaming, App dev etc ).

A sizeable number of these positions are being / will be filled from abroad as we do not nor never will have the expertise in the workforce required to fill positions locally.

A 6 month FAS course + Jobbridge placement doesnt a coder make. Most companies are/will be looking for coders who can hit the ground running on current projects, no time for training up. I reckon one would need about 5 years or more experience to become a self reliant proficient coder? Maybe i am wrong?

The dependence of this government on a small area of IT/ICT to get us out of this job crisis in my opinion is crazy. This sector will only ever suit a minority.

nail. head.

Fas courses are a nonsense when it comes to this sector.

Programming is a mindset and can be learnt to a degree but to become good at it you need a logical and mathematical mindset.

5 years to become a proficient coder is about right. Saying that the learning never stops.


Call centre and tech support are not what i would classify as ICT.

This sector needs proper cultivation. Development needs to be prioritized over tech support. This means we will need to import more talented people. So be it. These people will pass on their knowledge tho.
Of course this means less jobs and less headlines for our politicians but forget that. We need sustained IT development jobs.

With the nature of the internet, tech support can be provided from anywhere now. This percieved silver bullet of tech support is a disaster waiting to happen. You need only look at dell, gateway and pc manufacturing we once had.

Originally Posted by odlum

You will always get grumpies in the world who do down everything.


The IT sector in Ireland is one of the great Fianna Fáil legacies of the past 30 years. When one thinks of where we came from to where we are now in a relatively short space of time it really shows what great leadership and good economic management can do. Sadly that leadership does not exist in the current government and it's all at risk. Hopefully we hold out till 2016 for the next FF government and it's not too late

Talking the economy down.....cribbing and moaning.

Its as if you don't want us to vote for FF.

Originally Posted by CookieMonster

In the same way you mention the construction sector. At a time of unprecedented construction in the country (Residential, commercial and industrial) we never sought to innovate in that sector. We stuck to the old methods. We could have, based on the enormous revenues generated and the huge market which existed, innovated in pre-farbication construction. We didn't. When the boom burst we were left with nothing unique to offer any other market.

i remember hearing of some innovative builders trying to push timberframe houses. Massive strides have been made in the construction and fabrication of timber frame houses. Also these houses are built in a matter of days and not months. Ive been in one of these houses, and they are beautiful, warm and sustainable. Some of the houses built in Sweden and denmark are completly passive.
These house can be built for a fraction of the price of the concrete disasters we built.

But alas the CIF and FF building buddies made sure there was no inroads made here. Remember the "concrete and better built houses" slogan!

we could have become leaders in teh design and insulation of timber housing. Instead we got ghost estates.

There is no vision in this country.

Yip Skelly,

We need a firmly anchored original development software industry here. By that I mean where game titles, apps and software ideas originate from Ireland and not from the USA . Where these game, app, software companies develop and design the games/software here and not first in the USA.

Call centres or tech support are all very moveable - ( eg BigFish )

Much better if ireland becomes known as the centre of the coding universe in Europe not as an outlying support division for the mothership company in the USA.

New releases of games etc for the various platforms need to be known to come from Ireland. This however will not happen soon as we dont have the educational base / skillsbase in this area.

BTW - same goes for 3D Graphics, Films - good case here at least, is Brownbagfilms.

All that tech glitter is not gold | David McWilliams

Common sense should tell you that when you see a man arriving at a summit in a sports car, fawned over by a political leader, and entering the arena to the tune of James Bond, your critical faculties should not only not desert you, they should be sharpened.
When he tells a rapt uncritical audience of believers that he is going to colonise the universe with his and other people’s money, you should become very worried. In fact, these are moments that will be looked back on as evidence that this industry – or at least a large part of it – is completely mad.
The tech bubble has its hipster companies that make no money, yet are being bought and sold for billions; everyone is cool, young and almost evangelical about the future but, financially, it is a very dangerous place.

As said, talk about about IT in school, or FAS courses, is pointless. And you can't just reskill people into an area which effectively takes a quarter of a lifetime to become minimally proficient in. The best thing they could do for the IT sector here is to focus on maths as being an important subject in school. The CEO's of Havok, Demonware and many other valuable companies, have said that our talent is severely lacking in this area, and dumbing things down with Project Maths is only going to exacerbate the issue.


At a more general level, it frustrates me to no end to hear government and laypeople talking about how to improve 'talent' or the industry here, because there's a prevailing ignorance regarding what 'IT' is, and about what areas in IT are important. And it seems to me that nobody in government has any clue as to what programming or development actually is.


Having a country full of call centres, and hailing this as a sign of a smart economy, is not going to be a good strategy. Fostering the burgeoning development community here *would* be a good strategy. Hearing Bruton fawning over every announcement of 100 jobs in a call centre for the Turkish/Scandinavian/[insert country which speaks a language our natives will never speak fluently] market, or gibbering on about cloud computing, makes my skin crawl.

Originally Posted by Bonsai Experiment

All that tech glitter is not gold | David McWilliams

Common sense should tell you that when you see a man arriving at a summit in a sports car, fawned over by a political leader, and entering the arena to the tune of James Bond, your critical faculties should not only not desert you, they should be sharpened.
When he tells a rapt uncritical audience of believers that he is going to colonise the universe with his and other people’s money, you should become very worried. In fact, these are moments that will be looked back on as evidence that this industry – or at least a large part of it – is completely mad.
The tech bubble has its hipster companies that make no money, yet are being bought and sold for billions; everyone is cool, young and almost evangelical about the future but, financially, it is a very dangerous place.

You know things are bad when bandwagon jumpers like himself get on board. I'm surprised the Irish Times hasn't recruited him for its technology/lifestyle section.

Originally Posted by SKELLY

nail. head.

Fas courses are a nonsense when it comes to this sector.

Programming is a mindset and can be learnt to a degree but to become good at it you need a logical and mathematical mindset.

5 years to become a proficient coder is about right. Saying that the learning never stops.


Call centre and tech support are not what i would classify as ICT.

This sector needs proper cultivation. Development needs to be prioritized over tech support. This means we will need to import more talented people. So be it. These people will pass on their knowledge tho.
Of course this means less jobs and less headlines for our politicians but forget that. We need sustained IT development jobs.

With the nature of the internet, tech support can be provided from anywhere now. This percieved silver bullet of tech support is a disaster waiting to happen. You need only look at dell, gateway and pc manufacturing we once had.

How mush can a good programmer make in a year?