Originally Posted by Shpake

For the 10001 st time will they set up a root and branch sworn enquiry into what happened.
From what I can make out, we had a regulator who didn't regulate, we had county councils from and county managers who were incentivized to build build build and we had no bank resolution procedures in place. The crisis was heralded by the dof and a few isolated economists calling from the wilderness a few months before the fatal night, but our leaders had no bank resolution procedures in place.

You are 100% correct that we are in the poor house now and can't afford to pay back the money on time if ever... but square this with John O'Donoghue's pension please... I also heard that the Irish dole is higher than the British or German... same goes across the board civil servants taoiseachs, bus drivers etc.

Quote from newspaper back then.

'We are infested with regulations. The corporate ethics industry has mushroomed.' It was called 'challenging the zealots'.

Pity the zealots did not succeed.

Originally Posted by firefly123

I am still confused as to why they didnt just let AIB and whatnot go and then create the National Bank of Ireland or whatever and take all the good assets and loans into that. Im guessing some powerful people would have lost out.

remember they had to make the Irish taxpayer liable for the AIB pension fund first to give the bankers a soft landing....

Originally Posted by A view from England

As I understand things, the document that could shed light on the matter is currently being withheld by EU and Irish conspirators in a laughable claim that it is not in the public interest to release it.

That is a letter from November 2010. The guarantee was introduced in September 2008. Got anything else?

Originally Posted by Passer-by

The Central Bank's statistics directly contradict your view.

At the time of the guarantee on 2008, of the "Debt Securities issued" by Irish Credit Institutes these were owed as follows:

Irish Resident 11.8%
Euro Area (ex Ireland) 17.3%
Rest of World 70.7%

That 17.3% figure is for ALL the (rest of the) Euro area not just Germany.

Deposits also tell a similar story.


None of this be surprising as there is no evidence that the rest of the Eurozone thought the universe revolved around us as we seemed to think at the time.


Link to figures: http://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/s...ance_sheet.xls (See the "Table A.4 - Liabilities" tab for Sept '08 data).

eh .. not so fast.

your data suggests a 7-fold increase in euro-area issuance by irish banks in just four years (2003-2007). that's the important fact.

the "rest of world" debt includes all kind of $ stuff form the IFSC. most of this has nothing to do lending into the Irish economy. it is issuance by IFSC based entities. the data may even include derivatives.

Originally Posted by Spanner Island

No... but then that's not what I said...

They have been complicit in the foisting of unsustainable debts on this country however, by insisting we didn't allow any of our banks including the Anglo dog to go bust...

And they've also been complicit in the accompanying charade being indulged in at national and EU levels that pretends we can afford to pay those debts...

The entire thing is farcical...

The "no failure" policy for banks was a domestic policy in Ireland before it became an explicit policy in Europe. Read chapter 8 of the Honohan Report.

8.17 As the discussions regarding procedures for crisis containment started to unfold, early on a clear consensus view emerged that no Irish bank should be allowed to fail, in the sense of having to close its doors and not repaying depositors and other lenders. This strong view departed from the textbook view that only systemically important institutions should be candidates for such protective treatment. But it was shared without reservation by all the key officials involved and, for good or ill, simplified the decision making process. By late September, it would have also reflected the broader reaction at European level to what was considered to be an ill-judged policy decision on the part of the US authorities not to save Lehman Brothers.

The EU didn't insist that Anglo not fail; Ireland did.

The average banking crisis debt across the EU is €192 per person, and the figure of €9,000 for each Irish person does not take into account the €18bn put in from the National Pension Reserve Fund.

Shocking like.

ETA: after re-reading that article again I'm not convinced. Something fishy about it.

as much as Michael Taft's numbers in the Irish Left Review make a good headline in the Irish Examiner they are bonkers, absolutely bonkers.



first of all I couldn't find any of them explicitly mentioned in the Eurostats report. And by the way we know that 41bn Euro isn't anywhere near the total cost to the Irish tax payer. 40 bn Euro total cost to the German taxpayer laughable. And France made 3bn Euro?

The Irish left review never was and never will be a reliable source for anyone. It's run by brain damaged lunatics.

Originally Posted by meriwether

Our fiscal policy was dictated by the German reunification needs?

Germany took an interest in what we spent on the hospitals, did they?

Like you said the details of fiscal policy was our choice. However we certainly had NO power over Euro policy and particularly the low interest rates adopted by the ECB at Germany's wish. All those tracker mortgages for eg are only beholden to the ECB and they were ultra popular. The continually lauded IFSC (the wonder employer) was and is filled with many many foreign hedge funds etc., who have delighted in both the low interes rates and the light touch as a combination of bankster heaven. The Hypo real estate debacle is well worth your attention The IFSC: The cornerstone of the shadow banking system

When arguing this particual toss we need to get back to the real culprits. its not your average german or irish person at all. it's the puppet masters.
IFSC lobby group powerful in shaping policy - The Irish Times - Mon, Oct 08, 2012

Originally Posted by H.R. Haldeman

Hearing on PK that Enda spoke to Euro Parliament this morning, again saying Irish people have suffered from austerity (???), that we'll exit the programme soon (???), that our economy is bouncing back (???) and all to much applause and good reviews.

Absolutely mad. I am seriously creeped out by the green shoots talk since the start of the new year. I basically don't buy a word of it. Not a word.

We've been having green shoots speeches since 2008, I suppose their going by the policy of a broken clock tells the right time twice i.e. if they keep on insisting then when green shoots do appear they can take credit and hope that the audience don't remember the times they got it wrong. A bit like a 'psychic' cold questioning a grieving relative, the poor person will forget about the misses and remember the 'accurate' questions.

Originally Posted by bob3367

And are likely to re-elect the party that got them into the mess.

It’s a good smart Alec reply but firstly Iceland jailed the bankers and politicians responsible. Secondly either you believe in elections or you don’t. And lastly, as far as I am aware, the elections haven’t taken place yet.