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  1. #101
    hammer hammer is online now
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    Still way too much waste and overpayments being made across the public sector.

    Eliminate waste.
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  2. #102
    Cynicist Cynicist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    Or did you miss the fact that cutting in the middle of a depression always shrinks the economy, hence by definition worsening the recession/depression?
    Up to a point a good point but: Cuts to such spending as on overseas aid, TDs benefits, rent to failed developers etc etc would not worsen the situation while there would be the benefits of more buy-in by the common citizen to "an all in this together" dynamic surely?
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  3. #103
    feargach feargach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynicist View Post
    Up to a point a good point but: Cuts to such spending as on overseas aid, TDs benefits, rent to failed developers etc etc would not worsen the situation while there would be the benefits of more buy-in by the common citizen to "an all in this together" dynamic surely?
    Don't TDs spend most of their dosh in Ireland? Cut their pay, you cut the economy (unless you spend in another area of the economy to compensate, in which case no net savings or loss. Im totally in favour of such cuts as long as they're compensated for). Ditto failed developers: stop paying them, NAMA and the banks will be demanding more money in return.

    In the end, it makes no sense to be collecting less than one-third of the economy in taxes. Our creditors would probably sharply reduce our interest rates if we did so.
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  4. #104
    Mossy Heneberry Mossy Heneberry is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    Don't TDs spend most of their dosh in Ireland? Cut their pay, you cut the economy (unless you spend in another area of the economy to compensate, in which case no net savings or loss. Im totally in favour of such cuts as long as they're compensated for). Ditto failed developers: stop paying them, NAMA and the banks will be demanding more money in return.
    If that was the case why not double, no, triple their pay so?

    In the end, it makes no sense to be collecting less than one-third of the economy in taxes. Our creditors would probably sharply reduce our interest rates if we did so.
    Yes it doesn't make sense, which is why we have a spending and not tax problem in this country.
    Last edited by Mossy Heneberry; 6th January 2013 at 06:11 PM.
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  5. #105
    gatsbygirl20 gatsbygirl20 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Doyle View Post
    To do that you would have to sack 70% of the public sector and not give them SW.
    And you would have to hold on to the pension contributions some of them had made over 40 years

    And factor into your savings, the tax and USC you are no longer collecting, or the 13% being taken back from them in pension contributions when they were working...
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  6. #106
    feargach feargach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Heneberry View Post
    First of all you should be using GNP.
    Oh goody! Another cheerleader for GNP. We've had two already, neither able to mount even the smallest hard-data defence of their preferred metric. Let's see if you can do any better!

    Fact: GDP is the method the world uses. Nobody else thinks it's worth the effort of putting up-to-date GNP data up where it can be found via google. That is definitely a strong argument against GNP.

    What, if anything, is the difference between GDP and GNP for other industrialised nations? Recent data, please.

    The fig-leaf of an excuse given by proponents of using GNP rather than GDP is that, allegedly, the vast majority of nations have no important difference between the two figures, whereas Ireland does. This is an assertion of fact, but with no facts presented. So, obviously, it gets rejected.

    So, where did you get your facts from that convinced you that GNP was a superior metric? Link to a page with the specific data on it, with no need for further clickage or searches please.
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  7. #107
    feargach feargach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Heneberry View Post
    If that was the case why not double, no, triple their pay so?
    Because there are places more deserving that could do with the money.

    I'm arguing against aggregate cuts, not specific ones. You need to learn the difference.
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  8. #108
    MrFunkyBoogaloo MrFunkyBoogaloo is offline

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  9. #109
    Mossy Heneberry Mossy Heneberry is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    Oh goody! Another cheerleader for GNP. We've had two already, neither able to mount even the smallest hard-data defence of their preferred metric. Let's see if you can do any better!
    I don't know what the others may have posted, as I didn't read through the whole thread but here's what NAMAwinelake has to say about it. (My highlights)

    Nominal GDP for 2012 is put at €163,150m – a 2.6% increase over the nominal €158,993m actual nominal GDP in 2011. Nominal GNP for 2012 is put at €130,850m – a 3.0% increase over the nominal €127,016m actual nominal GNP in 2011.


    Ireland

    So going on that there is a difference between the figures.

    Fact: GDP is the method the world uses. Nobody else thinks it's worth the effort of putting up-to-date GNP data up where it can be found via google. That is definitely a strong argument against GNP.
    I don't care what the world uses, we have to stick to the most reliable figure which seems to be GNP.

    What, if anything, is the difference between GDP and GNP for other industrialised nations? Recent data, please.
    I don't know and I'm not going searching for it, you can do that if you like.
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  10. #110
    CarnivalOfAction CarnivalOfAction is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bumble View Post
    Sadly, you're probably right because those who can afford to do without state services tend to vote, whereas those who need more state services tend not to vote.
    Maybe we should let them know how others compare:

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