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  1. #51
    Victor Meldrew Victor Meldrew is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
    The father has left to go for work elsewhere, i.e the UK, Canada etc. They obviously decided the best way to cope was to put in a claim as a single mother and let the state pick up the tab. Problem with this its hard to prove fraud is being carried out because the father still has a right to see his children every 3-6 months and isnt living at home.

    The best thing would be for the government to chase
    There is something grotesque about that, if Dad actually has a relationship with Mum. I have a huge amount of sympathy for dad's who work away from their families due, largely, to the collapse of the economy here. They should not have to commit fraud to make ends meet.

    The govt should chase, but allow dad to write off certain travel costs against tax. Give them a tax break, but screw them if they defraud the system.
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  2. #52
    sadmal sadmal is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthisfree View Post
    There are loads of single mothers who do not want their "sperm doners" next or near them as that is exactly what they are..."sperm doners" they want him to stay as far away as possible so they can get the max from welfare. I have seen it happen....Unfair to blame the fathers as they have little or no say in it..

    They had a say in the conception of their children - they could have used condoms or if religious self control. No one is forced to be a father any more than a women is forced to be a mother.
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  3. #53
    sadmal sadmal is offline
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    [QUOTE=Neutron;5938865]
    Quote Originally Posted by Septic Frank View Post

    Im sorry but they do not have the right to ask where you purchased items from. They can ask but you can refuse.

    You can also legally refuse them entry to your home. A Gardai requires a search warrant to enter your home, so a welfare officer simply cant order you to open your door.

    A welfare Inspector has stipluated tasks.

    1. Is the person making the claim genuine.
    2. Is the person making the claim looking for work and availing of assistance.
    3. Does the person making the claim fall within the allowed means.

    You canbe wearing the latest fashions, Have a brand new car outside the drive, whilst playing a PS3 on your 3D TV, none of this can be questioned by the welfare officer and none of it is their business.

    What is their business is the checking of your bank account looking for evidence to support that you are living within your means and dont have extra income.

    They also have a right to check the land register to see if you own property that you may be receiving an income from.

    If you think about it for a minute you would understand,

    A welfare officer sees a PS3 sat in the corner,

    Where did you getthat from?

    I purchased it.

    how did you purchase it?

    From my dole money I saved up.

    Whats he going to do? Tell you not to save part of your dole money to buy a PS3? Its not in his remit and he has no power to tell people how they should use their dole money.

    Powers of Social Welfare Inspectors



    SWI - Powers of Social Welfare Inspectors » Operational Guidelines » Department of Social Protection


    Code of Practice For Social Welfare Inspectors

    SWI - Code of Practice For Social Welfare Inspectors  » Operational Guidelines » Department of Social Protection
    The Means test for Welfare is also quite generous.

    Capital Weekly means assessed
    First €20,000 Nil
    Next €10,000 €1 per €1,000
    Next €10,000 €2 per €1,000
    Balance (€40,000 +) €4 per €1,000
    That is exactly what is wrong with the system. That's how the General Martin Cahill, despite never working a day in his life, was able to buy an expensive house in Rathgar, own several motorbikes, have a large family and claim the dole.

    Where is the justice in the fact that people who try to be responsibile and look after themselvs - buying or renting their own home, paying for doctors, for school uniforms and books etc and when they need help are put through the mill. Others who never worked a day in their life get council housing, free medical care, free school uniforms and books plus the dole and as many children as they want.
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  4. #54
    damus damus is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
    Its very simple, if they feel unsafe whilst on an inspection they withdraw and when they return to the office write to inform the client that they must attend an interview and bring along proof of job seeking.

    It matters not what a person has in their home, the welfare inspector isnt there for that, there job is simple, validating a claim. If they feel a crime is being commited report it to the Gardai.

    If the Client fails to prove they are looking for work then cancel the claim.

    If the Inspector lives near the client send an alternative Inspector.

    I have delt with the Welfare Inspectors myself, I have found some of them to be rude and up their own arse so I can well imagine why some people might equally be rude back to them.
    I know people who would be involved in assessing claims and not one of them works in a local office near to where they live. I'd also be quite surprised if any social welfare inspector would be assigned to work in a locality that's near to where they are residing for obvious reasons. The other point is that the DSP has used and continues to use private detectives if they want to put claimants under surveillance - so there's no need for any social welfare employee to put themselves at risk. Social welfare inspectors can also use a buddy system when calling to a claimants home and there's also the opportunity for them to invite the claimant to attend an interview in the local office.
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  5. #55
    Septic Frank Septic Frank is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    I know people who would be involved in assessing claims and not one of them works in a local office near to where they live. I'd also be quite surprised if any social welfare inspector would be assigned to work in a locality that's near to where they are residing for obvious reasons. The other point is that the DSP has used and continues to use private detectives if they want to put claimants under surveillance - so there's no need for any social welfare employee to put themselves at risk. Social welfare inspectors can also use a buddy system when calling to a claimants home and there's also the opportunity for them to invite the claimant to attend an interview in the local office.
    Sorry but you're ill informed as is Neutron.

    If an inspector is investigating a suspicious lone parent claim they have to visit the home and they have to "investigate" - that is the whole point of it, calling in someone for an interview in such cases is pointless.

    As for hiring private investigators, well, that it is complete horseshyte - this is the job of social welfare inspectors. In complicated cases there is a special investigations unit in the Department - no outsourcing of private dicks.

    Also, in rural areas the inspectors most certainly do live in and around the areas that they inspect. Do you think they ship them in from England?

    As for people's means, if there is a suspicion that the person may be working on the sly (neighbours report eachother all the time) or having some undeclared income, the inspector will call to the door. If they're not allowed in, they write this in their report. If they're allowed in and see new everything everywhere, they write it in their report.

    The inspector then gives a recommendation on whether he or she believes the claimant is telling the truth - this is precisely how it works.

    Case reports are then sent to an independent (central department office) for final judgement.
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  6. #56
    Neutron Neutron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Septic Frank View Post
    Sorry but you're ill informed as is Neutron.

    If an inspector is investigating a suspicious lone parent claim they have to visit the home and they have to "investigate" - that is the whole point of it, calling in someone for an interview in such cases is pointless.

    As for hiring private investigators, well, that it is complete horseshyte - this is the job of social welfare inspectors. In complicated cases there is a special investigations unit in the Department - no outsourcing of private dicks.

    Also, in rural areas the inspectors most certainly do live in and around the areas that they inspect. Do you think they ship them in from England?

    As for people's means, if there is a suspicion that the person may be working on the sly (neighbours report eachother all the time) or having some undeclared income, the inspector will call to the door. If they're not allowed in, they write this in their report. If they're allowed in and see new everything everywhere, they write it in their report.

    The inspector then gives a recommendation on whether he or she believes the claimant is telling the truth - this is precisely how it works.

    Case reports are then sent to an independent (central department office) for final judgement.
    Septic Frank, I have posted the legal aspects of what a Social Welfare Inspector can and can not do, I have also provided you with their code of conduct.

    Perhaps you should read over that before telling other posters that they are ill informed. Or is this an attempt to attack those dependent on social welfare?
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  7. #57
    Septic Frank Septic Frank is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
    Septic Frank, I have posted the legal aspects of what a Social Welfare Inspector can and can not do, I have also provided you with their code of conduct.

    Perhaps you should read over that before telling other posters that they are ill informed. Or is this an attempt to attack those dependent on social welfare?
    I've outlined in detail the exact procedure for a social welfare inspector - this is indisputable.

    Now, I never attacked people on social welfare.
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  8. #58
    RightCentreLeft RightCentreLeft is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septic Frank View Post
    Sorry but you're ill informed as is Neutron.

    If an inspector is investigating a suspicious lone parent claim they have to visit the home and they have to "investigate" - that is the whole point of it, calling in someone for an interview in such cases is pointless.

    As for hiring private investigators, well, that it is complete horseshyte - this is the job of social welfare inspectors. In complicated cases there is a special investigations unit in the Department - no outsourcing of private dicks.

    Also, in rural areas the inspectors most certainly do live in and around the areas that they inspect. Do you think they ship them in from England?

    As for people's means, if there is a suspicion that the person may be working on the sly (neighbours report eachother all the time) or having some undeclared income, the inspector will call to the door. If they're not allowed in, they write this in their report. If they're allowed in and see new everything everywhere, they write it in their report.

    The inspector then gives a recommendation on whether he or she believes the claimant is telling the truth - this is precisely how it works.

    Case reports are then sent to an independent (central department office) for final judgement.
    100% correct.
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  9. #59
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveL View Post
    Too late to turn the ship around now. We're well into the era of entitlements and gains in return for nothing. Less than nothing in fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Septic Frank View Post
    It 's never too late Dave. We have values, standards and laws but we're not applying them justly.

    If, for example, you were to attack a Minister of the Government, a high court judge or a member of an Garda Siochana, you'd be dealt with quite severely as, you'd have attacked more than an individual but an office.

    I believe that any bullying or intimidating of civil and public servants should be treated with just as seriously as such behaviour actually attacks the very core of our democracy. If it goes unpunished it undermines the entire system.
    If we do so,the inmates in jails would double or treble.
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  10. #60
    RightCentreLeft RightCentreLeft is offline
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    Due to my line of work I am very aware of the high level of social welfare fraud in the State. I have noticed a marked increase in the number of people who have been caught defrauding the social welfare system. In my opinion, one of the biggest scandals within the Department is the high level of non national claimants who are being awarded payments to which, for various reasons, they have absolutely no entitlement to. Another frustrating aspect of the system is the high number genuine non national claimants who, having fallen on hard times, are being incorrectly refused payments. Many of the deciding officers dealing with the claims do not have the competence to interpret and understand even the basic aspects of social welfare legislation.

    If the Govt is serious about tackling welfare fraud then they would be best advised to double the number of SW inspectors.
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