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  1. #61
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Johnston View Post
    from a business point of view?

    We've sold the foreigners another bag of magic beans. Can't they make their own soup in America?
    I don't get your point.

    Can we not make our own soft drinks and burgers?

    And yet Coca Cola, Pepsi, McDonalds and Burger King etc. do quite well here.

    These days branding is everything and those who own the brands are the ones who make the killings.

    Ireland needs to develop and retain brands instead of flogging them off.
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  2. #62
    darkhorse darkhorse is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Maker View Post
    You still have not addressed the costs borne by EI et al championing and coaching these guys.

    once again the Irish taxpayer bends over....
    Its much more advantageous for the Irish taxpayer that the business is owned by a company with the resources to bring this brand to an international audience. This will result in much greater employment than would be possible if it remained in the hands of the original owners.
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  3. #63
    Tim Johnston Tim Johnston is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Maker View Post
    How much did Enterprise Ireland spend grooming and presenting these guys?

    http://www.agservicesgroup.com/RoleM...Colum_Case.pdf

    How much did that 1 document cost?

    Its a bit like how the Central Bank green lighted Anglo

    EI green lighted, marketed and spot lighted these guys.

    What pay back for the tax payer?
    Come back with figures. This guys had access to plenty of money, although given the choice between getting daddy to sign a cheque or the taxpayer.. hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel_Yell View Post
    Generally I would agree with you. I find it hard to like these two though. Rich kids from the Ballimaloe stock took advantage of the family connections to create a company. For the most part, none of the manufacturing was Irish-based.

    I wish them well, but it's not a genuine boys done good story.
    Quite agree. some might say that packaged meals were one of those 'Celtic Tiger' luxuries that are a thing of the past now everyone's remembered we can make our own soup. If it proves anything, it's simply that if you're well connected, it's much easier to do well than if you're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by conservative green View Post
    It is disappointing news even leaving aside the grants question because I had the impression these guys were craftsmen who enjoyed what they did and weren't in it for the quick buck.
    that's called "marketing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    I don't get your point.

    Can we not make our own soft drinks and burgers?

    And yet Coca Cola, Pepsi, McDonalds and Burger King etc. do quite well here.

    These days branding is everything and those who own the brands are the ones who make the killings.

    Ireland needs to develop and retain brands instead of flogging them off.
    See the response to Rebel_Yell, really. I never thought it was a very good brand, but I accept that that's a personal opinion, and I strongly suspect that it must have suffered a knock like every other business of late, and not least because it was (as I recall) more expensive than it's perfectly adequate competition.
    I've also never bought into the whole 'buy Irish - it's crap and more expensive but at least the guy who owns it lives in the same country as you' that Supermac's used to pull. I also always thought it was no coincidence that the company started just after the Ballymaloe brand took a huge hit due to a certain unpleasant scandal.

    I'm not begrudging, I'm just surprised that anyone was gullible enough to invest in it. I'd have done the same and sold and, like the two lads, laughed my a*se off all the way to the bank.
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  4. #64
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Johnston View Post
    See the response to Rebel_Yell, really. I never thought it was a very good brand, but I accept that that's a personal opinion, and I strongly suspect that it must have suffered a knock like every other business of late, and not least because it was (as I recall) more expensive than it's perfectly adequate competition.

    I've also never bought into the whole 'buy Irish - it's crap and more expensive but at least the guy who owns it lives in the same country as you' that Supermac's used to pull.
    I've never bought into what you describe either, but if it's as good as the competition and is the same price, then why not buy it because it's Irish? Anyone who buys an inferior product because it's Irish - well let's just say fools and their money are soon parted - and deservedly so.

    I think you're missing my point regarding brands though - but if you're happy enough to see any Irish company that produces a world class product hoovered up by multi nationals... you're entitled to that opinion although I don't share it.

    Because if that's what continues to happen Ireland will remain over dependent on FDI and be little more than a posh sweat shop for multinationals.

    Not that I think that's going to last either. At some point the Polands and Indias of this world will catch up and be able to do what Boston Scientific do here much cheaper there... and yet again we'll hear a lot of whingeing about being at the mercy of multinationals and their whims.
    Last edited by Spanner Island; 4th May 2012 at 06:31 PM.
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  5. #65
    Tim Johnston Tim Johnston is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    I've never bought into what you describe either, but if it's as good as the competition and is the same price, then why not buy it because it's Irish? Anyone who buys an inferior product because it's Irish - well let's just say fools and their money are soon parted - and deservedly so.

    I think you're missing my point regarding brands though - but if you're happy enough to see any Irish company that produces a world class product hoovered up by multi nationals... you're entitled to that opinion although I don't share it.

    Because if that's what continues to happen Ireland will remain over dependent on FDI and be little more than a posh sweat shop for multinationals.

    Not that I think that's going to last either. At some point the Polands and Indias of this world will catch up and be able to do what Boston Scientific do here much cheaper there... and yet again we'll hear a lot of whingeing about being at the mercy of multinationals and their whims.
    No, I do take your point, actually Spanner - and you're right about the value added being important and that it is good for the economy that it remains here. It's an entirely valid observation and I acknowledge that. I also think, hey, we should start up another soup company and sell that one to them too!

    The only thing I can think of, and another poster should be credited with the point, that there may have been a fire sale situation regarding Cully&Sully and they were desparate to get out of the business for whatever reason. Multinationals occasionally get it radically wrong (*cough* Ford *cough* Landrover) and they may have done so here, and it's a credit to our diddly-aye marketing abilities that we can get them interested in a supposedly mom'n'pop soup company.

    But, sure, we're never going to compete on the world stage if we flog off every successful company we produce, but, not every company we produce is successful. If we, as you say, become merely a factory floor for multinationals, they'll soon figure out that they can get it done cheaper in India.
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  6. #66
    The OD The OD is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpanzee View Post
    WTF is with the criticism and moralising? The boys done good, set up a company and have sold it on. End of story.
    Exactly - I fail to see what the issue is here, well done to all involved and yummy soup to boot.....
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  7. #67
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by The OD View Post
    Exactly - I fail to see what the issue is here, well done to all involved and yummy soup to boot.....
    Obviously.
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  9. #69
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Unfortunately this seems to be a long running trend that doesn't look like it's gonna stop any time soon.

    I've no problem with people selling off their businesses. It's up to them to do what they like and good luck to them.

    I simply think the state should acquire a shareholding in any company it invests in so that when these sell offs occur, at least the state gets a bit of pay back. Such shareholdings could be on the basis of the 'state' being a silent partner with no voting rights.

    I also think more should be done to encourage Irish companies to remain in Ireland. I don't buy the claim that they have to be flogged off to foreigners to succeed globally.

    But if there is some truth in this, then Irish investors (private and public) need to sort it out and fix it quick.
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  10. #70
    revereie revereie is offline
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    One second!Companies availing of grants typically have to pay them back if the company is sold to anyone, whatever nationality, within a certain timeframe - if I recall correctly - 10 years.
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