Register to Comment
Page 3 of 40 FirstFirst 12345 13 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 398
Like Tree66Likes
  1. #21
    He3 He3 is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28,862

    Quote Originally Posted by bluefirelog View Post
    They won't because the ECB has told them not to.

    It's clear that what Brian Lenihan said about being bounced into the bailout was true.
    I think it's clear that it was the Government position that they were going to continue to resist the bailout (during the Dempsey/Ahern fiasco), but the ECB appears to have summoned officials to Brussels and then decided to increase pressure by releasing to the media (Reuters and the like) that Ireland was in bailout talks. Then at the Council the following week, the German minister tried to force Lenihan to make a statement that we were in a bailout before he had even had a chance to discuss the situation with his colleagues.

    Maybe the NTMA made a mistake in late 2010 when they postponed bond auctions due to the interest rate levels (possibly on advice of the ECB?)- other countries such as Spain/Italy etc are experiencing similar levels now and are proceeding with their bond auctions. Our bond rates really went mad after that.
    It also sheds new light on Governor Honohan's phone call to the nation via Morning Ireland, shortly after the letter was sent, telling us we were going into the 'programme'.

    He would have been copied by the ECB I think.

    Honohan called in to Morning Ireland on Thursday - Richard Crowley
    Last edited by He3; 12th February 2012 at 01:30 PM.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #22
    bluefirelog bluefirelog is offline
    bluefirelog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,366

    Quote Originally Posted by He3 View Post
    It also sheds new light on Governor Honohan's phone call to the nation via Morning Ireland telling us we were going into the 'programme'.
    I presume that those summoned to the secret meeting in Brussels were given sight of the letter by the Minister for Finance before they left. If the ECB says they are pulling the plug unless you do something (e.g. in this case the ECB no longer providing emergency liquidity to Irish banks), then I suppose if you are the Governor of the Central Bank, there is no choice or room for political maneouver, you cannot take the risk on that situation. On the other hand, Lenihan was still trying to see politically if there was some way around. I don't think the Government would have been too happy with Honohan's radio interview?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #23
    Libero Libero is offline
    Libero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,158

    Quote Originally Posted by bluefirelog View Post
    I presume that those summoned to the secret meeting in Brussels were given sight of the letter by the Minister for Finance before they left. If the ECB says they are pulling the plug unless you do something (e.g. in this case the ECB no longer providing emergency liquidity to Irish banks), then I suppose if you are the Governor of the Central Bank, there is no choice or room for political maneouver, you cannot take the risk on that situation.
    No. The ECB was ashamed of its position; why else keep it secret?

    The ECB may also have been aware that while the Irish government was thick enough to believe its threat, wider circulation of the letter outlining that threat could have caused other voices to point out how the ECB was in no position to carry out the threat (something that really should be obvious by now, much as Official Ireland likes to paint the situation as having given the government no choice).
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #24
    Houyhnhnm Houyhnhnm is offline
    Houyhnhnm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,258

    Quote Originally Posted by goosebump View Post
    Is there no end to your conspiracy theories? You're really scraping the barrel with stuff from Sindo.

    Whatever happened to that story about Anglo and its Austrian subsidiary?

    That went nowhere fast, didn't it?
    That was the Business Post, not the Sindo.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #25
    He3 He3 is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28,862

    Quote Originally Posted by Libero View Post
    No. The ECB was ashamed of its position; why else keep it secret?

    The ECB may also have been aware that while the Irish government was thick enough to believe its threat, wider circulation of the letter outlining that threat could have caused other voices to point out how the ECB was in no position to carry out the threat (something that really should be obvious by now, much as Official Ireland likes to paint the situation as having given the government no choice).
    Those are the most credible factors I have seen suggested so far.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #26
    ibis ibis is offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    28,459

    Quote Originally Posted by Libero View Post
    No. The ECB was ashamed of its position; why else keep it secret?

    The ECB may also have been aware that while the Irish government was thick enough to believe its threat, wider circulation of the letter outlining that threat could have caused other voices to point out how the ECB was in no position to carry out the threat (something that really should be obvious by now, much as Official Ireland likes to paint the situation as having given the government no choice).
    I think that completely ignores the fact that the ECB is not the only body capable of publishing the letter - the government evidently received a copy - and assumes a level of stupidity on the part of the government (and others) that is frankly bizarre. I don't doubt that such an assumption will play perfectly well on p.ie, but I don't find it credible at all - governments may make visibly stupid decisions as an outcome of opacity, internal wrangling, and vested interests, but any government capable of seeing that publication of the letter would weaken the ECB's case - or would justify the government's acceptance of it to the Irish public - would have done so by one means or another.

    Again, the most credible assumption is that the ECB refers in the letter to something the government (and the current government) would also prefer not have publicly discussed.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #27
    bluefirelog bluefirelog is offline
    bluefirelog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,366

    Quote Originally Posted by ibis View Post
    Again, the most credible assumption is that the ECB refers in the letter to something the government (and the current government) would also prefer not have publicly discussed.
    Perhaps they don't want the vulnerability of our position being the subject of widespread media coverage here and abroad i.e. that it is not in Ireland's interests?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #28
    ibis ibis is offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    28,459

    Quote Originally Posted by bluefirelog View Post
    Perhaps they don't want the vulnerability of our position being the subject of widespread media coverage here and abroad i.e. that it is not in Ireland's interests?
    Well, that is the sort of thing that would create pressure for the government to accept the ECB's view, but which neither party would want published even at this point. A letter that simply contained threats would have done much to mitigate the damage suffered by FF at the 2011 election, and I find the idea that they wouldn't have found a "whistleblower" to leak it kind of unlikely. We have had other DOF leaks, after all.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #29
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
    Clanrickard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    27,422

    Quote Originally Posted by He3 View Post
    We are on the brink of being signed up to a new Governance treaty that shifts the power balance further in favour of centralised European structures.
    ]
    Which is better than being at the whim of electoral politics in larger nations.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #30
    He3 He3 is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28,862

    Quote Originally Posted by bluefirelog View Post
    Perhaps they don't want the vulnerability of our position being the subject of widespread media coverage here and abroad i.e. that it is not in Ireland's interests?
    The vulnerability of Ireland's position could hardly be more apparent. The dogs in the street have talked of little else for some time.

    The ECB proclaims itself as defending the interests of Europe, which do not always coincide with the interests of Ireland, as the same dogs in the street know as well by now.

    Neither the previous Irish government nor the present one has released the letter. That may be for domestic political reasons which they both see as decisive, or it may be because the ECB will not permit them.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 3 of 40 FirstFirst 12345 13 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment