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About LinkBacksI'm with you on this one. The Irish voting public don't fear the left as it's not a reality - so no point fighting it.Originally Posted by certain_people
I'm with you on this one. The Irish voting public don't fear the left as it's not a reality - so no point fighting it.
That's complete nonsense. I disagree with you.
What you have in the 26 is not politics but post-politics. One set of managers contest against another set of managers. The system of liberal capitalism itself is not up for discussion.
You're right on that point, but the variants of that system are up for discussion.
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Even though we are not using a systematic approach to economic management, are we not pushed along by a world which may be? We must be to some extent influenced by our ties to Europe and to business and especially technological change. Marx did say that technology would determine economic forms in the end.
Anyone familiar with the ideas of Major Clifford Hugh Douglas?
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Its kind of strange though, considering how badly the system of liberal capitalism is failing the people in so many areas. Housing is one area that springs to mind in Ireland.You're right on that point, but the variants of that system are up for discussion.
Economic vocabulary is not something that comes naturally to the Irish - and I mean the ideas, broad ideas of it - the Irish don't believe or trust in it. For instance, 'liberal capitalism' - is it something a political party could sell to the electorate? Or a Marxist agenda for that matter? The Irish don't understand it because it just doesn't apply to them. As someone said earlier, 'we muddle along'. We are still a nation of little tribes with some union intrusion from time to time, probably with counter-active results for the most part - the proposed ESB strike.
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True, but to paraphrase Churchill (sorry in advance) Liberal Capitalism is the worst form of economics, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. Now I know that there is an argument that the reason for this is that it that Socialism has never been implemented anywhere. It could be not so much that the theory is inherently bad, but the transition is impossible. The nationalisation of any particular business, say Intel in Leixlip for example, would lead immediately to international sanctions, a flight of all FDI companies and many local business also, and a huge flight of capital from the Banks etc.Its kind of strange though, considering how badly the system of liberal capitalism is failing the people in so many areas. Housing is one area that springs to mind in Ireland.You're right on that point, but the variants of that system are up for discussion.
This would be matched by a flight of talent such as doctors, engineers etc - the proverbial brain drain. How economic meltdown would be avoided in these circumstances is beyond me. This is before greed or human nature are taken into account.
My question for a number of years is why don't socialists gather in one place and demonstrate the application of the theories on a local scale, and take what is learned to a national and international level?
All of this said do bear in mind that many of the policies that previously would have been considered socialist in nature have been adopted into many liberal democracies:
- Free or subsidised healthcare
- Social Security
- Social housing
- Workers rights including basic health and safety
- Civil Rights
- Minimum Wage
Now I am not saying these are perfect - but better than anything else that has been tried?
The Illuminati ...... because payback's a Bit
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My question for a number of years is why don't socialists gather in one place and demonstrate the application of the theories on a local scale, and take what is learned to a national and international level?
All of this said do bear in mind that many of the policies that previously would have been considered socialist in nature have been adopted into many liberal democracies:
- Free or subsidised healthcare
- Social Security
- Social housing
- Workers rights including basic health and safety
- Civil Rights
- Minimum Wage
Now I am not saying these are perfect - but better than anything else that has been tried?
Are the distinctions in economic policy not academic, though, and hardly applied anywhere fully (ever)? So nations generally pick and mix, fiscal, monetary measures and attempt to manage inflation with classic academic tools and get involved with unions and wages and give business breaks and blah blah blah without any real purpose other than to appeas or please voters and consumers.
We need lower car tax. I want a bigger car.
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Perhaps some things would be better left within the capitalist system, though industries such as clothing and electronics have become almost totally dependant on sweatshops in the so called third world. I would think, however, that areas of vital national interest, such as food and housing should be taken out of the liberal capitalist system. Food production pretty much is outside it in the EU already.
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