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  1. #891
    Neutron Neutron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctrl+C View Post
    Slightly off topic but interesting to see Portuguese 10 years down at their lowest in a year:

    GSPT10YR:IND
    8.50000 0.18700 2.16%

    Hopefully Portugal will be able to follow Ireland out of the PIG club.
    When did we leave the Pig club?
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  2. #892
    meriwether meriwether is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxi Driver View Post
    So in your view pretty much the entire world is beyond redemption. G7 aggregate household, non-financial corporate and government debts (% of GDP) in 2010

    United States 268%
    Japan 456%
    Germany 241%
    United Kingdom 322%
    France 321%
    Italy 310%
    Canada 313%

    And those figures exclude financial corporation debt which you include for your mythical 260% of GDP threshold. All these countries blow this threshold away. Are they all going to default?

    At the end of this year Japan will have a government debt alone equivalent to 235% of GDP.
    Thus post hasn't been quoted and refuted.

    Oddly.
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  3. #893
    odlum odlum is offline
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    Some big falls today in Portuguese bond yields after yesterday's bond swap.

    PORTUGUESE GOVERNMENT BONDS 5YR NOTE PORTUGAL PL Analysis - GSPT5YR - Bloomberg
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  4. #894
    Ctrl+C Ctrl+C is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
    When did we leave the Pig club?
    June.
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  5. #895
    Ctrl+C Ctrl+C is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by odlum View Post
    Some big falls today in Portuguese bond yields after yesterday's bond swap.
    Yeah it seems Portugal isn't too far behind us in getting their house in order. Hopefully other peripheral countries will follow suit. Even Greek yields has fallen in recent months. We're now out of the worst of this mess. The key now is to get Europe growing again.
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  6. #896
    Mr. Bumble Mr. Bumble is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunkyBoogaloo View Post
    I'll take these as a "No, I can't provide a quote to any remark where MrFunkyBoogaloo said the ECB was buying bonds because he never said it."




    Are we selling 10 year paper? No. Tell you what, why don't you sell some and see how you get on...

    Was it that amortising bonds thread where I asked you how much that little bit of finanzial wizardry will cost us and when did I say that "we" couldn't sell long-term debt? You'll provide a quote for this too, no doubt.


    Your disingenuosness is creeping back. I'd watch that.
    I've been following this exchange. I'm mystified.

    If this phrase:
    "And how much of that "improving" is down to the ECB sticking their hooves in?"
    doesn't refer to the ECB buying bonds then, in the context of the exchange, what exactly does it mean?
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  7. #897
    meriwether meriwether is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bumble View Post
    I've been following this exchange. I'm mystified.

    If this phrase:
    "And how much of that "improving" is down to the ECB sticking their hooves in?"
    doesn't refer to the ECB buying bonds then, in the context of the exchange, what exactly does it mean?
    When he said 'sticking their hooves in' he didn't mean buying bonds.

    Take him literally. The ECB were sticking their hooves into something. They have hooves.
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  8. #898
    Mr. Bumble Mr. Bumble is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether View Post
    When he said 'sticking their hooves in' he didn't mean buying bonds.

    Take him literally. The ECB were sticking their hooves into something. They have hooves.
    So they are devils. Explains everything.
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  9. #899
    Taxi Driver Taxi Driver is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra Syndrome View Post
    Eh?

    The value of government securities is not mark to market. Its face value.

    http://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/s...statistics.pdf

    The spread sheet linked in the above link, clearly shows how these values are not fluctuating to the dynamics of the secondary market.

    Furthermore, about my point about one quarter on the government bonds owned by the Irish banks, the US despite all its monetising its own debt has 15% of its government debt owned by the Federal Reserve and the US commercial banks. The UK has 18% of her debt owned by the Bank of England and the UK commercial banks.
    Eh, indeed. Your previous post said:

    "Oh and domestic Irish Banks holdings of Irish Bonds increased by €800 Million in August to €18.5 Billion."

    The report you link provides statistics on the Irish banking system. There are numerous banks in the Irish banking system which are not "Irish banks" and the Irish banking system also includes the Central Bank of Ireland. The column in the spreadsheet linked in the report is headed "MFIs and Central Bank". It is pretty clear that this is not just "Irish banks".

    The figures show that in July the Irish banking system held €20.6 billion of €83.1 billion of Irish government bonds (24.9%) while by August they held €21.4 billion of €87.3 billion (24.5%). Thus Ireland, issued €4.2 billion of new bonds. The real story is that Ireland issued new debt and the purchasers of this were largely external. Non-resident holdings went from €60.2 billion to €63.4 billion.

    The details on the Irish banks can be seen in this spreadsheet

    http://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/s...ance_sheet.xls

    You provide a link to data that includes Irish banks, foreign banks resident in Ireland and the Central Bank and with no evidence declare that any changes in the category are only down to the first listed. There is no evidence that Irish banks have been large purchases of Irish government bonds in 2012. The August figures would suggest that the Irish banks added no more than €300 million to the holdings of Irish government bonds and this probably came from the successful bond issuance by the NTMA at the end of July.
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  10. #900
    Taxi Driver Taxi Driver is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTTR View Post
    Most of what you quoted above is only related to developers’ debts: those given to NAMA and developers debts under €10Mn or whatever arbitrary amount decided whether a debt went to NAMA or not. The retail and commercial mortgages toxic debt have yet to be recognised and written off: at least another €100Bn. But for some unknown reason, the financial and political authorities are hoping that these debts will not be realised due to hoped for growth in the economy; a pipe dream!
    No, that €135 billion relates to the entire banking system. Loans from all banks in Ireland for "Real Estate, Land and Development Activities" peaked at €106 billion in September 2008. It would seem hard to the €135 billion provided for losses in the Irish banking system is " only related to developers’ debts" when they only totalled €106 billion.

    The losses in the banks have been recognised and provisions/capital have seen set aside to deal with them. The problem as you point out is that the losses have not been faced up to. But don't it because the banks don't have the money. In August the Irish domestic banking system had €98 billion of capital. In September 2008 (to just pick an earlier date) they had €43 billion of capital. The money to deal with the losses is in the system. The resolve to do so is not.
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