We need to cut social welfare

[Question R24U]

Paying 'generous' unemployment rates will not act as disincentive to employment since there are so few jobs. It could be possible in small number of cases that it may act as a disincentive to emigration (or in some cases returning home). The main problem is paying the total bill 204euro x 400,000 per week by the end of 2009.
I would to have loved to have seen the boom used to introduce a Basic Income system as recommended by CORI. But that opportunity has now passed.

[bogtrotter]

Why blame the less well off for the problems that our country has at the moment...Why immediately jump to the conclusion that those at the bottom of the ladder are the cause of what has happened to our economy and must pay the price...Did our Government not just dish out billions of tax payers money to the banking system to bale it out and who was it that caused that problem...

Let those who have been riding the celtic tiger for the last 20 years live up to their responsibilites......Why not increase taxation, make those who can afford it pay more......What type of society would we have if we brought our country back to 1913.....Lets all pull together and make sure Ireland has a future.....

[PhoenixIreland]

No I havent applied for these benifits - I work therefore I pay for them. I know a 40 year old widow who is collecting the Widows pension - why cant she find a job? (She has been widowed for 6 years now - get over it).

Widows pension has nothing to do with unemployment, it's designed to replace the lost income when a spouce dies.

She worked, and her husband worked, they paid PRSI just like you did (at least 156 times in order to qualify for the benefit in the first place), and your not the only one who pays taxes.

If your company ups and heads for Poland other peoples taxes will pay for you too.

I know a women who has a 10 year old and has been collecting for the past 10 years - I have a kid and work - I dont need the handout and my kid hasnt robbed a bank or beat an old lady up.

We all "know someone" like that EP, I know one guy who constantly rotates between fas courses and the social welfare, and has it all drank by Monday, never even attempting to look for a job, they're a minority.
All these "I know a guy" cases are arguments for changing the rules not cutting the benefits, we can't screw the guy whos unemployed in Limerick because Dell left because theres some owl one down your road whos been on the widows pension for a long time.

As far as this Child allowance craic - use the money to clean up the hospitals -

The hospitals are filthy because they switched to sub standard cleaners, and because the time pressure docs are under means poor hygiene habits, not because of a financial shortage, and the child allowance already funds the hospitals, since huge chunks of it come back to the state in the form of VAT and corporation tax revenue.

(Incidentally, ask the people who ************************* about social welfare to pay higher taxes to solve the real problems in the healthcare system, or to plug the hole in the public finances and they'll go nuts)

Beer mat solutions aren't gonna get us out of the mess were in.

I don't agree with means testing but incidentally when the idea was floated to means test children's allowance the outcry came mostly from middle class women.

[Xipe Totec]

There simple will be no money to pay if we continue as we are going, these increases should never have been given.

ireland is awash with money; the problem is that its tied up in the hands of corporations and the upper and middle class.

reistributing wealth is more than a worthy goal in itself; most of these wealthy institutions/people are parasitic and inflict large opportunity costs the on society that sustains them.

[irelandproud]

Leave my Dole alone, 200 isnt near enough it should be increased never mind being cut.

[cyberianpan]

ireland is awash with money; the problem is that its tied up in the hands of corporations and the upper and middle class.

reistributing wealth is more than a worthy goal in itself; most of these wealthy institutions/people are parasitic and inflict large opportunity costs the on society that sustains them.

The problem is that some of the social welfare goes to the wealthy (child benefit) and also the raises were given out in the boom - they should only have been temporary bonuses

In either case Justice per se is moot - with increased numbers coming onto the dole, decreased tax revenues - the country doesn't have the money.

cYp

[Catalpa]

I agree, €200 a week is way too much money for anyone.

I see all those single mothers and laid off workers driving up to the Social Welfare office in their Lexus GS 460s, the men getting out of the car decked out in the finest armani suits, the women getting out of the car at the mans side with their prada and louis vuitton bags in their arms, dressed in Donna Karan silk dresses. The nanny pushing the twins in the buggie in their TH gear.

Then when the money appears in their bank account they get their ten tennars out of the atm, go home, strip to their underwear (also designer of course) and just roll in all those tennars on their queen sized bed.



Exactly 20000!! Rolling around in €200 a week why would anyone want to get a job and go back to earning the €600 a week they were getting before?

We have simply been too generous with them.

Well perhaps not that bad - but I suggest you spend a day down at the Blanch Labour Exchange (or is it Jobseekers Centre these days?) --

for a fact there are people drawn from far and wide in this World motor down and in they go to get what their getting...

Go Figure

Couple up the road from me here - neither have a job. Get a taxi home with the weekly shopping (we are on a bus route BTW!)

Go Figure

Couple I know - neither have a job - they went on Holidays last year -

Dingle? - Nope!

Achill Island perhaps? - Nope!

OK Egypt then? - Yep!

Go Figure.

[PhoenixIreland]

The problem is that some of the social welfare goes to the wealthy (child benefit)

and they paid it right back in higher income taxes, thats how universal systems work.

Well perhaps not that bad - but I suggest you spend a day down at the Blanch Labour Exchange (or is it Jobseekers Centre these days?) --

for a fact there are people drawn from far and wide in this World motor down and in they go to get what their getting...

Go Figure

Couple up the road from me here - neither have a job. Get a taxi home with the weekly shopping (we are on a bus route BTW!)

Go Figure

Couple I know - neither have a job - they went on Holidays last year -

Dingle? - Nope!

Achill Island perhaps? - Nope!

OK Egypt then? - Yep!

Go Figure.

How do you know they don't have savings?

The rate is €200 a week, those people are not getting some kind of super secret higher rate.

[gaffer falls]

I agree to an extent. Minimum wage jobs for a full week (37.5 hours) should be at least twice the Jobseekers Allowance (i.e max JA of €162).

We pay enough in Children's Allowance and dependent adult allowances.

Where household income is above €30,000 only Jobseekers Benefit should be paid, not Jobseekers Allowance.

Full week is 39 hours and more at times, at least in the private sector.
JA is means tested, 30k family income would preclude JA, if not i am owed a bit of money.
Why the concentration on single parents with young children, they have a productive job for 12 years at least, being a full time parent.

[euroboy]

I believe that cuts in social welfare is necessary and should be targetted at certain groups.

1. This is going to get me into trouble but Pensioners should be targetted first. People have an historical view of pensioners struggling to make ends meat. Things have changed, what was true in the past is no longer true today. Pensioners are no longer the vulnerable (perhaps for health concerns but not financially), they get very generous incomes(pensions), sit on assets and have little expenditure(No Mortgage, ESB allowance, TV licence fee waived, Free Transport, Free medical cards). The vulnerable of today are children in poverty, those losing their jobs, those on low incomes who have families and large outgoings(rent, children's clothes etc). But not to paint myself in even worst light, I dont believe carers allowance should be cut or unemployment allowance cut (in fact I would like to see an unemployment payment system that is related to income similiar to the system employed in Spain) Pensions should be taxed at source at 5%.

2. Child Allowance should be the next social welfare target. It should be taxed as part of income and thus removes advantaging the wealthy over poorer families.

3. Child Allowance bonuses:
This should be cut completely. It was financed from boom taxes and we cannot afford it.