ISME warns: Public Sector Overpaid- diasaster in offing

[bormotello]

You will try to decimate the public sector using corrupt arguments and divisive tactics, demoralise those remaining and will truely be left with a nightmare scenario of a broken country with no future to speak of what so ever.

Do you know other choices?
First, it was public workers unions, who started this division. Of coarse, they were saying good words about uniting everybody, but if you remove all rubbish from PS union leaders, it can be converted into “Let’s unite to keep salaries of public workers untouched”.
Second, most of public workers have been demoralized before by their management, which doesn’t want any improving. Most of public managers want to stay until pension on their well paid position. In order to protect themselves from public, they are creating stupid procedures, which will show to everybody that they are doing something and in case if something went wrong, they always can put a finger on employee which didn’t follow procedure. If anybody from PS management will try improve something, his bosses will assume that he wants to overtake them and they will do everything in insure that it never will happen again. He will have to write thousands reports how his improvements are working and soon if it any minor problem, his bosses will to him – “See – we warn you. Do only what we will say, and you will be fine and will get everything as soon as we will retire.”
You don’t want to understand who is behind this conflict. You behave like a puppet of your managers.
I’ll try to help you
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Ignore everything what I wrote and try to answer few question yourself
1) Pension levy. Who lost more – workers or their managers after tax adjustment?
2) Who did this proposal? Managers or clerk on 24K?
3) Even if clerk would do it in favor of lower paid workers, would his managers allow to pass his proposals to minister level?
4) Why managers didn’t go for strike in solidarity with their employees?
5) How many managers so far have been really punished for mess, what they did in their departments? Retirement with good pension paid by taxpayers and don’t consider as punishment.

……………….

Your country is f*cked and it is f*cked because you really do not wish to collectively pull together and create a better place for all.

What are you proposing to do collectively?
Fight together to say salaries for public sector in order to continue motivate them for low performance?

You want to make business sacrosanct and demonise anyone who believes people should come first.

You missing one important point – priority for saving life must be given to whom who can bring wealth into this country.
If you seen safety card on a plane, you would see that in case of losing pressure adults fist must save themselves and only then try to save kids and older people. Not sounds humanistic, but it designed to save more lives.
Irish economy is losing oxygen(money).
Unfortunately, public workers cannot do much on their own. They can only spend public money with very little result.
Private sector can save country. Ireland doesn’t have recourses to sell. It means that only private sector can save country. Any attempts to save public sector without full reorganization will make situation only worse.

[Proposition Joe]

Speaking as a teacher, I always laugh out loud at comparisions with England. ... Secondly,their Education system is a joke.

A joke?

Clearly you've never compared an A-Level paper to our own learn-off-and-regurgitate Leaving Cert?

Any student with decent results in A-Level Maths, Further Maths and Physics would sail into the second semester, possibly even the second year, of many BEng courses here.

[feargach]

A joke?

Clearly you've never compared an A-Level paper to our own learn-off-and-regurgitate Leaving Cert?

Any student with decent results in A-Level Maths, Further Maths and Physics would sail into the second semester, possibly even the second year, of many BEng courses here.

Jade Goody.

You are the weakest link, goodbye.

[Bonzo1970]

A joke?

Clearly you've never compared an A-Level paper to our own learn-off-and-regurgitate Leaving Cert?

Any student with decent results in A-Level Maths, Further Maths and Physics would sail into the second semester, possibly even the second year, of many BEng courses here.

Then why have British Universities resorted to their own tests because they cant rely on the GSCE as an indicator of Standard? The reason for this is the fact they have gone continous assessment mad and thus they can keep getting outside help. Perhaps,in certain areas the papers are more complicated but then again your typical Brit does only 2 or three A levels. Big deal.

[wexfordman]

Sophistry doesn't suit you either. A workers right to privacy has nothing to do with members of the public asking questions regarding value for money. Politicians are not the same as workers in this regard. I am not employed by the state and fail totally to see how any of the above commenst have any relevence to getting us out of our present mess other than to support the silly view that workers in the public sector must carry the can.

None of my comments in that post did hopi, my point was that leftfemme has resorted to the "its none of your business" response to about 3 differnt threads now, as she is running out of argument. It is our business, for the reasons I mentioned

[Proposition Joe]

Then why have British Universities resorted to their own tests because they cant rely on the GSCE as an indicator of Standard? The reason for this is the fact they have gone continous assessment mad and thus they can keep getting outside help. Perhaps,in certain areas the papers are more complicated but then again your typical Brit does only 2 or three A levels. Big deal.

Bonzo, you're conflating two quite separate concerns: the integrity of the exam system, and the standard established by those exams. The former tells us if we can trust the exam results, the latter whether the results are even worth worrying about.

While the integrity of the LC is not questioned, the standard most certainly is. Its ludicrous that the same weight is given to moderately challenging papers like honours Maths or English, as is attached to joke subjects like Bus Org or Social & Scientific.

So while Irish students may take between six and nine subjects in their Leaving, only perhaps three of these are at a decent standard: honours Maths, English and, so I'm told, an Gaeilge. And it's very common even for high achievers to take only two or possibly only one of the three top-tier subjects at honours level.

[Bonzo1970]

When was the last time you looked at any of these Papers? (LC)
Secondly-you never responded to the point that the average new teacher in the Uk leaves after 5 yrs ? Im sure you will argue thats a beneficial thing as you seem so anti teacher that you argue the minutiae of every bloody point-never conceding any ground. Sad really. The exams integrity is just as important as the standard required. The UK Gov hired the likes of you(inherantly anti teacher and distrusting of profession) to tinker with their system-treating teachers as floor operatives Result: mass exodus/minor improvements at best.

[Leftfemme22]

None of my comments in that post did hopi, my point was that leftfemme has resorted to the "its none of your business" response to about 3 differnt threads now, as she is running out of argument. It is our business, for the reasons I mentioned

There is no argument, it is none of your business for the reasons I have stated.

You can feel free to consider it your business and you can feel free to consider yourself qualified to judge or comment on my profession etc etc, but just don't expect those you wish to pontificate to to pay any attention to you.

[Leftfemme22]

While the integrity of the LC is not questioned, the standard most certainly is.

By who? You?

Again, what qualifies to make that call?

[Proposition Joe]

When was the last time you looked at any of these Papers? (LC)

Well you're hardly arguing that the standard has gone up in recent years?

I know for a fact that the standard in honours Maths was deliberately lowered in 1994, to coincide with the bonus points being taken away.

Secondly-you never responded to the point that the average new teacher in the Uk leaves after 5 yrs ? Im sure you will argue thats a beneficial thing as you seem so anti teacher that you argue the minutiae of every bloody point-never conceding any ground. Sad really. The exams integrity is just as important as the standard required. The UK Gov hired the likes of you(inherantly anti teacher and distrusting of profession) to tinker with their system-treating teachers as floor operatives Result: mass exodus/minor improvements at best.

Teacher retention is a different issue entirely.

Can you post a link backing up your statistic that the average length of service is only 5 years?

If only 12.5% of teachers did the full 40 years, then maintaining an average of 5 years service would require that the remaining 87.5% left on their very first day!