ISME warns: Public Sector Overpaid- diasaster in offing

[Proposition Joe]

Nothing qualifies you to assess the worth of my labour.

But you'd no problem with the benchmarking body assessing the worth of your labour.

Oh yeah, the difference being that they were handing out a 9% increase.

After magically considering your labour to undervalued to exactly the same extent as 350,000 other public servants.

Strange there were no high and mighty denials then that the laymen on the BM body couldn't possibly understand what super-humans like yourself get up to at work.

Your thought process is just a tad self-serving, no?

I am not qualified to assess the worth of yours, therefore I do not comment on it.

Of course you've no problem assessing how much tax I should pay. So as to fund your lavish salary.

Yet you and PJ bang on endlessly about how over paid we are despite not having a clue about my profession.

We don't need to know how to do your job to comment on your renumeration. It's sufficient to know how similar roles are renumerated in the UK or Finland, and to have a sense of what the country can afford.

And 240k for a 33 hour week counts as unaffordable in this climate, as is the fact that its over twice the salary such jobs yield in Denmark or Germany.

Nor do we need to how good or bad you personally perform in your job. PS pay scales are all standardized, so the under-performers are subsidized by the over-achievers. Even where performance-related bonuses are involved, these become an entitlement that everyone gets, even the useless An Post managers consigned to the rubber room.

And I am leaving this joke of a country, with hecklers and self satisfied con men littering the debate on the economic crisis, you guys seriously haven't got a hope of clawing your way out.

Good luck. I hear Finland is beautiful at this time of year! There you will find the high taxes you crave. But also more reasonable levels of renumeration. And hopefully learn the lesson that high taxes can be used for purposes other than over-rewarding public servants.

You are fostering a public v private divide that only exists in the minds of RW ideologists who laughably call those in the Private sector risk takers and innovators and wealth creators when in reality the overwhelming majority of Private sector workers are ordinary joe soaps doing a 9 to 5 much like those in the public sector.

Eh, its your protégés Hopi and Kev who continually argue that the private sector workers were all coining it during the boom, what with their commisions, company cars & bonuses. When nobody wanted those safe PS jobs. But despite the lack of interest in these permanent & pensionable gigs, somehow the brightest and the best were recruited.

I've always argued that typical private sector workers are low- to medium-paid wage slaves or salarymen.

The innovators are outliers, that has always been the case. And that's a large part of what makes an innovation-based economy so fragile, easily destroyed by meddling tax-and-spend idealogues like yourself.

[hopi watcher]

Eh, its your protégés Hopi and Kev who continually argue that the private sector workers were all coining it during the boom, what with their commisions, company cars & bonuses. When nobody wanted those safe PS jobs. But despite the lack of interest in these permanent & pensionable gigs, somehow the brightest and the best were recruited.

Do you actually read what you post?
Speaking for myself, I have never attacked any worker or sougtht to blame workers for the current mess we are in. Commenting on bonus's etc is valid for comparison with various remuneration packages. How do you know the 'brightest and the best' were recruited? Or is that just another 'good sounding' claim to support your bogus arguement.

[wexfordman]

Leffemme, just to kill this "none of your business" crap once and for all. Lets ignore the ridiculous belief you have that it is none of the tax payers business to query whether they are getting value for money for a minute, lets suspent reality on that one just for a second.

The minute teachers/nurse and other PS workers threaten to strike based on pay and conditions, the minute they wish to threaten public services, and the minute they wish to tart themselves to the general public looking for sympathy and support, it becomes EVERYONES Business.

Your arguments are getting more desperate by the minute. You start off from a position of reason, and then descend to insult and idiocy

[Proposition Joe]

Do you actually read what you post?
Speaking for myself, I have never attacked any worker or sougtht to blame workers for the current mess we are in.

No, you absolve all unionized worker from any blame what-so-ever, while heaping blame on your favourite bogeymen.

Commenting on bonus's etc is valid for comparison with various remuneration packages.

Despite the fact that only a tiny percentage of private sector workers ever receive any bonuses?

How do you know the 'brightest and the best' were recruited?

Hopi, your reading comprehension isn't the best.

I was casting doubt on the notion that the brightest and best were actually recruited (as claimed by the left-wing on this site) if no-one wanted those jobs during the boom (also as claimed by the same folks).

Th point was to emphasize the inherent contradiction in those two claims above.

[hopi watcher]

Leffemme, just to kill this "none of your business" crap once and for all. Lets ignore the ridiculous belief you have that it is none of the tax payers business to query whether they are getting value for money for a minute, lets suspent reality on that one just for a second.

The minute teachers/nurse and other PS workers threaten to strike based on pay and conditions, the minute they wish to threaten public services, and the minute they wish to tart themselves to the general public looking for sympathy and support, it becomes EVERYONES Business.

Your arguments are getting more desperate by the minute. You start off from a position of reason, and then descend to insult and idiocy

Sophistry doesn't suit you either. A workers right to privacy has nothing to do with members of the public asking questions regarding value for money. Politicians are not the same as workers in this regard. I am not employed by the state and fail totally to see how any of the above commenst have any relevence to getting us out of our present mess other than to support the silly view that workers in the public sector must carry the can.

[hopi watcher]

No, you absolve all unionized worker from any blame what-so-ever, while heaping blame on your favourite bogeymen.



Despite the fact that only a tiny percentage of private sector workers ever receive any bonuses?

.

Wrong, I absolve all workers. Are you seriously suggesting that our present position was created by workers and not by laisse-fare fiscal policy that allowed a small handful of greed merchants do as they wish which included what was nothing more than gambling with other people's money?

[Proposition Joe]

Wrong, I absolve all workers.

So, by virtue of being employed, one loses the ability to do any wrong?

I guess that leaves the bankers off the hook then.

Are you seriously suggesting that our present position was created by workers and not by laisse-fare fiscal policy that allowed a small handful of greed merchants do as they wish which included what was nothing more than gambling with other people's money?

Can you define "greed merchant"?

Someone who persues their own narrow self-interest at the expense of the common good?

Well, you'd find plenty of them up in Liberty Hall if you cared to open your eyes.

[Proposition Joe]

A workers right to privacy has nothing to do with members of the public asking questions regarding value for money.

Hello!

PS salary scales are all in the public domain already!

Mostly by virtue of being advertized on your beloved unions' web-sites for Chrissakes!

[hopi watcher]

So, by virtue of being employed, one loses the ability to do any wrong?

I guess that leaves the bankers off the hook then.



Can you define "greed merchant"?

Someone who persues their own narrow self-interest at the expense of the common good?

Well, you'd find plenty of them up in Liberty Hall if you cared to open your eyes.

Boy you do jump to conclusions. But you got the definition of a 'greed merchant' spot on so you're showing potential to grasp the facts. As regards Liberty Hall, once again, the cuase of the melt down here cannot be laid at that place. The attack on workers that followed the collapse is merely to justify sucking workers dry to pay our way out of the mess. That may even include yourself.

[Bonzo1970]

Ah another Anti Public sector Thread-shock Horror. The levy is here to stay. So the differeentials you drone on and on about JOE( one wonders if you make any contribution to society with the amount you write) have already been narrowed. Speaking as a teacher, I always laugh out loud at comparisions with England. Firstly,they ignore the fact that wages are in general higher here. Secondly,their Education system is a joke.

They cant rely on their GSCE results. The average teacher leaves after 5 years. Yes ,Public sector salaries must come down but thankfully it wont be simpletons like yourself working out final results. We are a well paid profession but you are limited in what you can earn and secondly, we perform pretty well internationally in circumstances our European colleagues would and have abhorred.