Why are nearly one in six of working age on social welfare in past decade?

[patslatt]

Fine Gael TD Billy Timmins says the government needs to prioritise social welfare spending on the most vulnerable in society and those unable to work again but he is highly critical of the government's failure to encourage into work the disproportionately large 15% plus of the working age population since 2001 claiming incapacity benefit,unemployment,lone parent and safety net benefits. See FG criticises some welfare pay increases during boom - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 25, 2010

The causes of this failure include:
-The government's constant, foolish increases in welfare benefits designed to head off criticism about its treatment of the low income groups,an "Inchidoney" approach it preferred instead of seriously dealing with the problem,according to Timmins.
-Increased social welfare benefits make work unattractive compared to minimum wage jobs.
-In the mid-1990s,the International Literacy Survey showed that Ireland's functional illiteracy rate was very high at 23% among the adult population,which is bound to limit job opportunities for the unskilled.
-FAS's failures:The government's very generous billion euro a year FAS budget for job training made little dent on the unemployed because FAS operations were too scattered around the country for political reasons and FAS was not held sufficiently accountable for results in getting jobs for its trainees.
-Social workers in the Department of Social Welfare don't advise government well on how to reduce welfare dependancy because of an unconscious fear of diminishing their client base of welfare dependants.
-The sentimental Irish attitude towards social welfare dependancy precludes a "tough love"
approach to dependancy such as that adopted in the USA.

In the US during Clinton's presidency,after decades of failure of federal programmes that created welfare dependancy (the phrase "babies having babies" summed it up),the federal government sent most social welfare funds back to the American states to manage as they see fit.Thanks to tax competition between states,the states are inclined to be parsimonious.

Many states introduced lifetime limits of five years on welfare dependancy and demanded that people accept work or be cut off benefits. Jobs were plentiful then and many found work,usually starting out in low paid work but gaining in pay over time. Recent figures in The Economist show that the number of welfare dependants was cut in half roughly since the states took over. In some states,there was great hardship for some marginally employable people with no work discipline and people who may never have worked. I saw a news clip showing mostly black American lone parent mothers being bussed for about four hours a day to work in a factory for very low wages.

Many countries such as Germany and the UK have noticed the successful aspects of this US programme and copied it but the UK's attempt to copy it has been feeble according to a recent comment in The Times. In Ireland,there is a vague plan for splitting up FAS.

[Cael]

Because capitalism dosnt work!!! 25 MILLION with no work in the EU.

[patslatt]

Because capitalism dosnt work!!! 25 MILLION with no work in the EU.

As economist Milton Friedman wryly noted,unemployment can be abolished at the stroke of a pen by designating the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty! Socialist economies don't need to properly price labour,so underemployment in unproductive jobs can't be measured.

[Cael]

As economist Milton Friedman wryly noted,unemployment can be abolished at the stroke of a pen by designating the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty! Socialist economies don't need to properly price labour,so underemployment in unproductive jobs can't be measured.

Everything that Milton Friedman said has been proven to be wrong. The man was a charlatan. The US needed someone to tell them in the 1970s that massive trade deficits were OK, and sure enough, Friedman told the US ruling class what it wanted to hear - and was richly rewarded for admiring the Emperor's new clothes.

Socialist economics dosnt need to price labour, because human working activity is not a commodity. Its what we are as human beings.

[Kevin Parlon]

A good west wickla man, is Billy Timmins.

[patslatt]

including the above generalisation!

[Tony Soprano]

He's dead right. Too mant lazy b@stards sitting around all day watching Jeremy Kyle and ethen expecting that the state will give them a free house/healthcare/schoolbooks etc.

You'll spot these types a mile away----They are the ones complaining that "the Polish get everything". They are the ones watching sky sports whilst St Vincent de Paul are delivering their weekly bags of coal/shopping.

I want these lazy ************************************s dealt with, once and for all!! Leeches is all they are!

[tigerben]

Well in Ireland and England lone parent's can have children without the worry that working parent's have. Lone Parent allowance should be capped, anyone can make a mistake but having two,three and four children is a lifestyle choice.
As for long term doler's, My B-I-L is one and he say's his never going to work again, They have a council house, rent is after being reduced, and his quite happy with life and able to head out, go to the bookie's and his dart's.
They also have a S.V dE P in their area and are well in there and get stuff for free and are delighted, and laugh at us for both working, and saying we should play the system. I will never give so much as a brass cent to the St.V.de P after seen them in the local community giving people who they know personally thng's just like Bertie there, their buddies, and not really in need.
He has been out of work 2.5yrs and has never got a phone call or offer of a course for the dole office,so the people should,nt worry what the minister say's, nothing will be done.

[bob3344]

Well in Ireland and England lone parent's can have children without the worry that working parent's have. Lone Parent allowance should be capped, anyone can make a mistake but having two,three and four children is a lifestyle choice.

We are in a situation in Ireland whereby it is very expensive for working people to have kids due to huge childcare costs, whereas the long term unemployed actually benefit financially by having large families.

This is economic suicide longterm.

Was reading the story on the indo website about the traveller who killed his father. He is one of TEN children. Wonder how many of them are contributing given that traveller unemployment was at something like 80% during the boom.

Simply cannot go on.

Child benefit should be stopped after the 2nd child.

As for long term doler's, My B-I-L is one and he say's his never going to work again, They have a council house, rent is after being reduced, and his quite happy with life and able to head out, go to the bookie's and his dart's.

We need to reduce the dole after x number of years to force such people to take up a job in a shop, restaurant, hotel etc. There are signs up around dublin for such jobs, but it often isn't worth peoples while to take them up & lose benefits.

Again, this cannot continue. We can't keep importing chinese & eastern europeans to do unskilled jobs while we pay unskilled Irish to do nothing.

[drjimryan2]

employed
unemployed
sick/disability
unemployable
downright lazy..........


each category should be looked at 'stand alone'....