Kenny - No current or capital cuts, and no new taxes

[Kevin Doyle]

No aware of an Irish neo-liberal government.

FF/PD Government

Neo-liberalism is vaguely different to keynesianism anyway. Both need economic planning.

Fail

Half wrong. Banks are overly regulated.

Epic fail

Its the poors fault for voting in an economically illiterate government..

You do know the poor by and large dont vote

or do I ask for services from YOUR government...

What? Are you totally self sufficient with a perfect immune system and the ability to defy gravity? Or do you just live on the moon

You utilise state services every single day, at one stage or another your life might very well depend on them.

I dont think you follow politics in the news. We're spending a lot of money on pointless green projects and the opposition want stimulus.

I dont think you know what a stimulus package is

[kieranfromclon]

Originally Posted by bormotello
If you will increase tax net and will leave benefits untouched, even for newly unemployed, then more and more low paid workers will be better on dole, they will start leave jobs because it will only chance for them to survive and then they will fall into welfare trap

Let's all start to be honest with each other. All these years of Fianna Fail telling the electorate what they want to hear is what has killed our society. It was a problem in the past and there is no reason to assume it has gotten better. There is a "welfare trap" and we need to deal with it in a sensitive way. Batt O'Keefe and Eamonn O'Cuiv have just heard about it (where the phuck were they in the 80's? - oh sh*t, Batt was lecturing me in CIT on some makey up subject and I can only assume that O'Cuiv was teaching somewhere else) - They are setting up a body to investigate (stuffed with more hacks) and reporting in the distant future.

The problem is when you add up all the benefits (rent allowance, medical card, back to school...) you quickly end up with more at your disposal than a low paid worker. These benefits are apparently worth worth €35k. I was unemployed in 2004 and tried to live on the dole for 4-5 months and I have to say it was hard. However, I've spoken to a number of my friends who are single and they think it's alright (these are not dossers but just can't get work). If you speak to a man/woman trying to keep a family on the dole alone then it is quite hard.

I think that this problem and a lot of our current problems have been how we deal with issues. Emily O'Reilly had it right in her Ombudsmans Report earlier in the year. We either kick it to touch or we band aid it - this results in the mess we have. And now it is so convoluted that untangling it is going to be messy but we have to do it. This maybe Kenny's strategy but he would need to lay it out now so that the citizens can start to get their heads around it.

I just thought about the CP agreement - One of the better "kick to touch" moves they have ever executed (FF's attempt to screw with the new Government from the grave) - Its time to start to shut this down now as it will not work in the new climate (bear in mind that they're only starting to have meetings about how to implement it) but the unions and their members seem to think they'll be getting payrises in February review!

[Pauli]

There's no real contradiction here....as long as you accept that a vast amount of Irish Govt spending is corruption and pork based, only a portion of it actually goes on services, and that a range of FF/Green stealth & consumption & business fees taxes and charges are strangling the local consumption, SME and export sectors.

So, as I've been saying for years, a competent and visionary Govt could

1) Dismantle all the State supports for cartels, rigged markets and other rent-seeking price-inflating scams
2) Dismantle all the corrupt useless subsidies, tax loopholes, waste, inflated supply contracts, PR/consultancy/expenses etc, all the ways in which FF siphon money to their mates
3) Dismantle all the quangos and other makey-uppy State boards and slash the salaries of these political appointees and open all these jobs up to normal market recruitment procedures instead of being in the gift of politicians for services rendered
4) Dismantle other taxes fees and charges that riddle the economy and (again) artificially increase the cost base, reduce competitiveness, and discourage spending
5) Dismantle the insolvent and corrupt banking sector and establish in the market clean solvent banks instead that will have a focus on lending to and supporting productive enterprise instead of bloody property/FF's quasi-private croney sector

Ye could slash spending by about €15bn+ practically overnight, restoring some faith internationally that we are serious about running a country here, restoring price competitiveness, and the removal of all the corruption dead weight on the economy would immediately spark a rise in economic activity, spending and growth in indiginous SMEs which will fairly quickly feed in an to increased tax take.

Course FF will just holler and yahoo that such things are "impossible" and "mad" because these proposals benefit the nation as a whole and every citizen who isn't a maFFioso. And FF don't want any notions like that getting around.

+1. Such reform needs a legal basis with meaningful enforcement. Otherwise, as you well know, the changes you outline is a mere wishlist.

[Sailor]

Absolutely - and if EK had just said that then it would have been fine - instead he allegedly said that there wouldn't be cuts in capital or current spending and there wouldn't be any new taxes. If accurately reported then it wasn't particularly clever.

Is this the same Enda Kenny who we are repeatedly told would, if elected in 2007, have saved us by coming out and telling us we had serious problems, that the party was over and he was about to embark on an austerity programme? At least we know that the present government is capable of seeing the error of its ways and doing something about the situation - Enda doesn't seem capable of taking the necessary corrective action even when he has somebody else to blame for creating the problem. I can only wonder how long Noonan will stand for this nonsense before stepping in and dealing with Enda - in fact, there's an idea, Noonan for Taoiseach!!

[oggy]

I know I should be gloating at this clown Kenny but at this moment the chances of him becoming Taoiseach is looking good and this simply terrifies me. Kenny like so many in the ABFF I sum up with, WHEN HE OPENS HIS MOUTH HIS HEAD VANISHES !!

[culmore]

Kenny was first to question Benchmarking, first to take a pay cut, first to question decisions on Anglo, tried his best to get rid of government but did not have the numbers in the Dail, what else can he do unless you vote for his part candidates in the upcoming GE.

[Sailor]

Kenny was first to question Benchmarking, first to take a pay cut, first to question decisions on Anglo, tried his best to get rid of government but did not have the numbers in the Dail, what else can he do unless you vote for his part candidates in the upcoming GE.

But now when he is being faced with the possibility of actually having to do something unpopular he is funking it. Seems to me he is a natural for permanent opposition.

[Odyessus]

(Please don't read this as a FG bashing thread. I have no problem with FG leading the next Government or Kenny being Taoiseach, in fact I think its essential that this is so.)

EK did an interview on Morning Ireland today in which he said that FG would maintain the capital spending programme, not cut health/education/social welfare, and that there would be no new taxes (water, property etc).

Obviously, as leader of FG, he has to put out a fairly bland and non-controversial message, but are voters really going to swallow this? Surely, there is an appetite amongst the electorate for a little bit more straight talking at this stage?

Obviously, as leader of FG, he has to put out a fairly bland and non-controversial message...

If this is what you call a non-controversial message, I can't wait for Enda to say something controversial.


P.S. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Noonan gets hold of him.

[Kevin Doyle]

If this is what you call a non-controversial message, I can't wait for Enda to say something controversial.


P.S. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Noonan gets hold of him.

Whats he going to do, serve his liver with fava beans and a nice chianti?

[bored and fussy]

This is nothing new and Kenny is being entirely consistent here.


Every time he opens his mouth he says something he shouldn't.

As has been oblivious for some years now he doesn't understand basic economics or even his own policies, but in fairness to FG this fact, on its own, should not be taken as a reason for not voting for them in the next election.

Kenny is not a leader in the accepted sense, he's just the front man with no input in policy formulation, he could still lead a good Government if he has good self driven ministers, if however that is not the case then I could see problems and it would mean we'd be entirely dependent on Gilmore.

As well as mr kenny not increasing taxes or implementing cuts, i heard this evening he has said he will if possible dismantle nama, how in the name of all thats holy can we ever hope to get out of this mess,If this is the best an opposition can put up, may god help us all.