Just How Corrupt Is Ireland?

[stanley]

Dear oh dear is that the best you can do ?

Councillor Anne Devitt of course represents Swords and well known for non declaration of income.

Lets not mention previous FG TD's and what they got up to on planning. Idea its all on party is laughable.

Dear oh dear, Odie, you have named 2 outsiders, think it would be fair to say that is 2 per 100 head of population, the other 98 would be FF'ers but the size of sins/deeds committed bt the 98 would be ginormous in comparison, they have taken a long time to accumulate but the FF controlled Govt of the last 13 years have been cashing in the chips and loading the taxpayers and their grandchildren with debt.

How are things at the airport must check and see how Ferris got on, Donie needs to be run out of that gaff + his kind.

[irish_bob]

I was interested last night to hear Vincent Browne suggest that the bankers, lawyers, politicos, etc., had as little conscience as the Irish crims who've recently been rounded up down in Marbella. Now I don't have any time for Seanie Fitz but to my knowledge he never arranged to have anyone's brains blown out, never engaged in torture, and never imported life-destroying Heroin and Cocaine into the country.

because those low life drug barons were most likely from a working ( wellfare ) class backround , thier actions are in some way excusable in brownes eyes where as the bankers had all the advantages , in the mind of the pc left liberal , you are forgiven for almost anything provided your fit a particular race , religon , gender , social demographic etc

[Libero]

So, if you were to ask me whether we have an issue with institutional opacity, dishonesty, malpractice, waste, endemic failures in documentation, and the closing of ranks and codes of omerta - absolutely. No question about it. But that's not corruption - it's incompetence, laziness, and bad practices.

My point was not that those practices are themselves corruption (they're not; they are what they are). Instead I was suggesting that the practices signal corruption.

By corruption, I mean the old-fashioned criminal offence, as opposed to the wider 'Machiavellian' concept of corruption as a form of moral wrongdoing (not necessarily illegal) against the republic.

Maybe my view is jaundiced from having closer experience of the planning process than other, cleaner elements of local and national government, and from watching how the property industry had its every need catered for at national level.

Here's an interesting paper with the title "Corrupt compared to what". Topically, it takes the state of Greece as its subject. (Be warned: it rests on the leftist idea that corporate/state corruption is endemic, and it's unfair to single out private petty corruption. Still, good for sources.)
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/hel.../Bratsis-8.pdf

Elaine Byrne's forthcoming book should also be a source on both facts and perceptions on the question of corruption in Ireland.
This is her writing on defining corruption: Definitions and Types of Corruption : Elaine Byrne
On how certain activities both signal and conceal corruption: How wasting public money has become terrible norm : Elaine Byrne
Our culture of saying nothing against the powerful, even as they abuse children: Cancerous Irish culture of saying nothing : Elaine Byrne

[Disillusioned democrat]

Corruption has always been in Ireland and always will be. What TI have shown over a long period of time that despite the perceptions of people that Ireland is comparably less corrupt than other countries.

If your son is looking for a job and you approach a friend who gives him one, Is that corrupt ?

Yes, if that job is publically funded. For years the Health Boards were treated as vote buyers by TDs, who were invariably on the board, and who gave jobs out like confetti to completely unsuitable candidates. I would hazard a guess that the incompetence may be somewhat related to the tribal nature of HB "recruiting" in the past.

[foxfordbhoy]

The running of the Lisbon Treaty referendum II puts us in the Mugabe league. To distribute the ballot boxes 2 weeks before the election (and all that implies) without Garda supervision is both illegal and indicative.

[Boggle]

Apart from planning the level of corruption here is pretty low key. As a citizen I have never had to "bribe" an official to get things done, in business I have never given nor never received any sort of bribe. I have worked in finance for two PLCs and never come across bribery and backhanders. HR recruitment policies are pretty strict. That's not to say we don't have some corruption here, I'm sure we do but it does not impinge on the average person. Are we better than Britain - they have had a few high profile scandals to do with arms deals so maybe that's what puts them up the scale.

In general i never see corruption out of the public service as the lads/ladies on the ground are pretty decent people in general and I can hav no complaints that way.

Where there is still blatant corruption within the public sector is in hiring - sorry, I know its being dealt with in some areas but in others it is still ripe. The one I know of in particular is primary teaching in Tipp where there's zero oversight and most jobs go to the best connected rather than the best equipped. Its blatant and obvious but for some reason no-one has ever cared.

Other than that our corruption seems to reside solely in the ranks of leinster house and the executive level of major organisations such as Bertie's they were my friends excuse. That's self proclaimed corruption but nothing has ever been done about it and I'd doubt we'll ever see any difference no matter whose in power unless we start decimating parties over the slightest hint of corruption - impossible as long as people continue to vote based on ancient history rather than current performance.

[Clanrickard]

Ireland is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. .

This kind of hysterical post is what I am talking about. Try living ina really corrupt country where if your house goes on fire you have to bribe the fire brigade to turn on the water, bribe them to put out the fire and bribe them to turn off the water. In many countries bribes are given to see a doctor, to get your mail delivered and to get a job any job. This does not happen in Ireland. There are no shortage of Chicken Lickens running around our country but they need to take a deep breath and see the big picture.

You gotta love the drivel from the sniveling corruption apologists on this thread, all of them spineless grovelers in awe and fear of the masterful stroke merchant and the powerful juju of the local medicine-man gombeen.

Corruption....here maybe, or here or here or here.....it's a corrupt country but we get away with pretending it isn't by redefining the meaning of the word "corruption" into something so convoluted and opaque that pretty much nothing is "corrupt".

Can you imagine a country that will slash vaccines for teenage girls, special needs classroom assistants, payments to the blind and carers, savagely attack the most poor and vulnerable in society yet balks at even talking about maybe possibly making some teensy savings in €13bn or so corruptly diverted into the pockets of the vast army of political hacks and croneys on lucrative salaries for non-jobs in quangoes?

Not corrupt? Don't make me f***ing puke.

I just love to watch Left wingers spontaneously combust with indignation. You haven't a clue.

Our current government refuses to tackle corruption by introducing whistle-blower legislation, refuses to introduce legislation to compel witnesses to appear before Oireachtas committees, curtailed FOI legislation, sets up Tribunals of inquiry and then goes to the Courts to prevent those Tribunals operating effectively, bails out banks and then promotes insiders to the boards of those banks, pays off public servants with questions to answer with inflated pensions, defends to the bitter end proven liars like Bertie Ahern in the name of "political loyalty" and refuses to disclose vital information about how taxpayer money is being spent in the name of "commercial sensitivity". That's just a snap shot. Then again, no member of government ever worked for Lehman's so they must be okay.

All the above happens in every country in the world. These are procedural matters that should be done but are not evidence of all pervasive corruption.

So, if you were to ask me whether we have an issue with institutional opacity, dishonesty, malpractice, waste, endemic failures in documentation, and the closing of ranks and codes of omerta - absolutely. No question about it. But that's not corruption - it's incompetence, laziness, and bad practices.
.

Fine post.

in the mind of the pc left liberal , you are forgiven for almost anything provided your fit a particular race , religon , gender , social demographic etc

Yep nail on head bob.

[odie1kanobe]

Dear oh dear, Odie, you have named 2 outsiders, think it would be fair to say that is 2 per 100 head of population, the other 98 would be FF'ers but the size of sins/deeds committed bt the 98 would be ginormous in comparison, they have taken a long time to accumulate but the FF controlled Govt of the last 13 years have been cashing in the chips and loading the taxpayers and their grandchildren with debt.

How are things at the airport must check and see how Ferris got on, Donie needs to be run out of that gaff + his kind.

Wow constantly bringing up DAA when called to PROVE IT by DC you ran with tail between legs.

IF you have anything regarding corruption in DAA then PUT UP but as you have hearsay, poorly written newspaper articles and nothing else then its safe to say you are a Waffler trying to score political points.

DAA is inept that doesn't make it corrupt.

Funny how you willyfully ignore the fact that FG councillors and other have been caught with hands in the cookie jar but then again thats not a shock.

[odie1kanobe]

The running of the Lisbon Treaty referendum II puts us in the Mugabe league. To distribute the ballot boxes 2 weeks before the election (and all that implies) without Garda supervision is both illegal and indicative.

Ballot boxes are always sent out before the election..................wow shock.

Independent Officials sign off they are empty when opened and allow witnesses from Political parties to observe.

Your inept claim shows 1.) you have no idea 2.) you have never been involved in political process.

[MsAnneThrope]

TI can only measure known instances of corruption. My previous post outlined how this government and previous FF led governments have failed to implement legislation aimed at more transparent government. In fact, their decision to curtail FOI was an attack on transparency and an aid to corruption.

Indeed, perhaps the salient question should be "How much corruption is [institutionally] covered up in Ireland?"

This country has a lot of dark secrets, going on for decades, and some have only come to light recently. Others have and continue to be frenetically covered up. For example the recent shenanigans exposed at Anglo remind me so much of the shenanigans that went on at Merchant Banking and a certain Patrick Gallagher ("the man with the Midas Touch" they called him - sound familiar?) who, astonishingly, never saw the inside of a prison cell here. Why not? He got his medicine from the authorities in Northern Ireland, but why not here?

I just strikes me that, at a political level, we've shown an appetite to repeat the mistakes of the past and allow unpunished wrongdoing and dodgy practices to flourish. And until there's a profound political willingness to learn from past mistakes, get away from the TACA mentality that's still all too prevalent, and enforce deterrents to and punishment for corruption, in 30-40 years time this country will be bankrupted once again by the spawn of the present incumbents. And they're lining up right now for their turn at the State cookie jar, with Daddy's blessing and encouragement.