Time for the government to hit those who havent felt the recession.

[just_society3]

1) The typical person not affected by the recession is a recently retired pensioner (Pension cashed out), with mortgage paid off (small outgoings), kids educated and large savings.

2) Generally young people who are mortgage free, and working in productive export industries are doing OK. They've been hit by taxes, and some by wage cuts.

3) Worst off are young families with large mortgages, and unemployed parents.

Capital gains tax should probably go up. Old age pension should be cut (slightly). There's no reason why OAP's should not have suffered a cut, and young unemployed should. Putting young people on a plane is not a good idea, as many may never return.

[jimmyfour]

However, there needs to be stimulus to get retail spending going again or else the economy will continue to decline.

To a certain extent, but we have virtually no indigenous industries besides overhcarging people for B&Bs in the west of ireland. We need to get retail spending going but we need to develop a local economy first - or else any money brought in by exports (which primarily go to EuroArea countries) will disappear in imports, the government takes a VAT cut, but it will be an ever-decreasing amount unless we make more ******************** than we buy and actually drag some of the wealth in the world into the country.

[evercloserunion]

I don't get how or why young people drinking shows that they are wealthy? A hell of a lot of people in this country drink on weekends, rich and poor.

[The Field Marshal]

The OP on this thread is Bi Cuin.
He has been called correctly a begrudger at least 7 times by other posters

After post no 63 Bi Cuin has not once responded on the thread he started.
[Perhaps he enjoys watching you all having a go at one another.]

Conclusion: Stop feeding the TROLL.

[slx]

Our taxation system is rather unfair to put it mildly.

The issue is not about begrudging people who have not been hit by the recession. What do you want to do? Make everyone equally poor?!

The issue is that the taxation system should be fair and equitable.

At present there's a huge tax burden placed on people who are on mid to high salaries and pay PAYE.

The self-employed often seem to pay very little tax or can avail of huge tax shelters.

I am also very annoyed by the fact that Revenue seem to spend their time chasing small shop keepers over petty amounts of tax while ignoring the fact that large numbers of professionals i.e. doctors, lawyers etc and tradespeople take large payments in cash without issuing receipts or paying tax.

It's about time this country woke up and started treating people fairly.

This kneejerk reaction of "oh let's screw the guy with the 2010 car" or someone who dares to buy a new TV is ridiculous.

Some people in Ireland pay all their taxes and still have comfortable lifestyles.

[Bi ciuin]

The OP on this thread is Bi Cuin.
He has been called correctly a begrudger at least 7 times by other posters

After post no 63 Bi Cuin has not once responded on the thread he started.
[Perhaps he enjoys watching you all having a go at one another.]

Conclusion: Stop feeding the TROLL.

Well what a wonderful fantastic contribution you have made there.

Would you like me to respond to each and every post or maybe I should respond after 20 posts have been made?

I stick to my origional points.

This country is banjacked, attacking the poor and weak will not sort out our problems.

Anyone who has the cash to purchase a brand new car clearly has not been hurt by the recession. Why then should the government give them a further tax cut by allowing them a scrappage scheme whilst at the same time cutting welfare and adding all sorts of levies to lower paid workers.

If this country is to exist in the future we will need everyone to dig deeper into their pockets. But at the moment its only the poor and low paid who have had to pay for Irelands`s recession. Its not their fault, they didnt cause it and its hardly fair for anyone to have to pay for the recession but the simple fact is we all have to.

So Im not a begrudger, I simply want to know when the better off in this country are going to start feeling the recession like the rest of us have instead of driving around in the latest 010 €40,000 car.

[charley]

children of serving TDs should be barred from working or receiving social welfare .their parent is overpaid and can easily carry them

[atlantic]

The government should live within it's means ,stop blaming others for it's wasteful vote buying altruistic spending,stop raping and pillaging the people,reduce all taxes ,get out of the way of business,and generally piss off and leave people to their own devices .The more the government involve themselves ,the worse they make it.Nobody should be made pay for this government f88k ups .

1) The typical person not affected by the recession is a recently retired pensioner (Pension cashed out), with mortgage paid off (small outgoings), kids educated and large savings.

2) Generally young people who are mortgage free, and working in productive export industries are doing OK. They've been hit by taxes, and some by wage cuts.

3) Worst off are young families with large mortgages, and unemployed parents.

Capital gains tax should probably go up. Old age pension should be cut (slightly). There's no reason why OAP's should not have suffered a cut, and young unemployed should. Putting young people on a plane is not a good idea, as many may never return.

[atlantic]

Hold on still I finish wringing out my handkerchief.This lark of the vulnerable ,poor ,weak blah blah is wearing very thin .Who are all these poor,vulnerable people because I don't see them to many of them.This country is a wreck because the government played out the something for nothing state to the last ,pacifying the large voting block (welfare,public service) spending other people money like it was non emptying atm.

Well what a wonderful fantastic contribution you have made there.

Would you like me to respond to each and every post or maybe I should respond after 20 posts have been made?

I stick to my origional points.

This country is banjacked, attacking the poor and weak will not sort out our problems.

Anyone who has the cash to purchase a brand new car clearly has not been hurt by the recession. Why then should the government give them a further tax cut by allowing them a scrappage scheme whilst at the same time cutting welfare and adding all sorts of levies to lower paid workers.

If this country is to exist in the future we will need everyone to dig deeper into their pockets. But at the moment its only the poor and low paid who have had to pay for Irelands`s recession. Its not their fault, they didnt cause it and its hardly fair for anyone to have to pay for the recession but the simple fact is we all have to.

So Im not a begrudger, I simply want to know when the better off in this country are going to start feeling the recession like the rest of us have instead of driving around in the latest 010 €40,000 car.

[Grumpy Jack]

Well what a wonderful fantastic contribution you have made there.

Would you like me to respond to each and every post or maybe I should respond after 20 posts have been made?

I stick to my origional points.

This country is banjacked, attacking the poor and weak will not sort out our problems.

Anyone who has the cash to purchase a brand new car clearly has not been hurt by the recession. Why then should the government give them a further tax cut by allowing them a scrappage scheme whilst at the same time cutting welfare and adding all sorts of levies to lower paid workers.

If this country is to exist in the future we will need everyone to dig deeper into their pockets. But at the moment its only the poor and low paid who have had to pay for Irelands`s recession. Its not their fault, they didnt cause it and its hardly fair for anyone to have to pay for the recession but the simple fact is we all have to.

So Im not a begrudger, I simply want to know when the better off in this country are going to start feeling the recession like the rest of us have instead of driving around in the latest 010 €40,000 car.

You quite clearly have no understanding of how our taxation system works and the damage Fianna Fail and the PDs have done to it.

We rely too much on middle and higher earners for our income tax take. Did you even see the table I posted earlier using the Revenue's own figures?

We also need those people to go out and spend €40k or even better €60k or €80k or higher on those 10 cars. Have you any idea how much VRT and VAT we take in on the sale of one €60k Audi or BMW? Much more than I pay in income tax in one year - and I'm a middle income earner who pays 33% of all income in tax, PRSI and levies at a top rate of 51%.

The problem with our tax system is that not enough people pay income tax and too many of those who do pay do not pay enough.

Here are the average tax rates paid by different income groups, according to the Revenue Commissioners 2008 report.



Those figures are just for income tax and do not include the other 10-14 per cent collected off most taxpayers through PRSI and the income and health levies.

Try this little exercise:

A little quiz on Ireland’s income tax | Ronan Lyons

or look at this graph for the OECD average income tax take and compare Ireland's take to the US, UK and OECD average.

Are Irish workers undertaxed? | Ronan Lyons

Ireland was already one of the lowest taxers in the OECD in 2000 and yet it cut its taxes by twice as much as any other economy.

This pattern since 2000 is important for where we are now, because a common explanation of how Ireland got into its fiscal mess is over-reliance on receipts from property taxes. That’s certainly true, but this wasn’t a passive over-reliance. This wasn’t a case of leaving the rest of the economy as-is and just not realising the once-off nature of the property tax windfall. This was very much an active over-reliance on property. The economy and the tax system was actively re-ordered based on a presumption that receipts from a property transaction tax and related sources would be the centre of the new economy. This was done with what seems like a reckless determination to tax workers less and less, without a due consideration of the sustainability of that policy.

I’m not saying that we should have high taxes for the sake of it. For one thing, direct taxation is only one part of the story – Ireland’s indirect tax rate (i.e. VAT) is one of the higher rates in the OECD (although it’s certainly not out of line). In fact, I’m not necessarily arguing that income tax rates need to go up. I can find only country in the OECD – the Netherlands – where the top rate of tax is above 50%. The Czech Republic, for example, which manages to get 10% in tax on the measure above, only taxes 32% at the top rate.

What I’m arguing is that we need to look again at our thresholds, i.e. at what point on the income scale do we start taxing people. We’ve got ourselves into this mess since 2000 and we certainly need to get ourselves back out.