CPSU membership reject Croke Park Deal

[adrem]

Great news. Incidentally its the lower paid public workers who are against the deal are being shafted by Zanu FF while the hacks in the top positions get to keep their cushy salaries and pensions.

de brudder and de burd will be alright bud.

nope - its the lower paid public servants who get job, income and pension security from the deal but they obviously don't want that. by the way - do you know how much tax/PRSI etc a low paid public servant pays? Do you know what that person would have paid pre-FF? FF did loads of things badly - one of which was excessively increasing the public sector wage bill and excessively decreasing the amount of tax taken from "average" salaries. We have one of the most progressive income tax structures in Europe and one of the lightest level of tax on lower paid but yet people just skim over that as if it should be taken for granted. Example - in the UK the new Government has announced that they will take progressive steps to try to move to a position where the first 10k of earnings aren't taxed !!

[brughahaha]

Can someone explain how this works at ICTU congress in making a decision to accept or reject?
Is it one union 1 vote or does each union have a number of votes equivalent to its membership and if so does it carry all votes or are the seperate Yes and No votes counted ?

[adrem]

Can someone explain how this works at ICTU congress in making a decision to accept or reject?
Is it one union 1 vote or does each union have a number of votes equivalent to its membership and if so does it carry all votes or are the seperate Yes and No votes counted ?

As I understand it the delegates will carry voting rights in proportion to their union membership - so the delegates representing bigger unions will be carrying more votes than delegates with smaller members.

[The_Big_Fellow]

Ok so most of the large ones have passed it, as far as I can see.

[making waves]

Can someone explain how this works at ICTU congress in making a decision to accept or reject?
Is it one union 1 vote or does each union have a number of votes equivalent to its membership and if so does it carry all votes or are the seperate Yes and No votes counted ?

Each union has votes equivalent to membership size.

If it is passed it is likely to be passed because of the block vote of SIPTU, IMPACT and the INTO (assuming they vote in favour as their leadership has recommended - if any of them vote against then the deal will not be passed at ICTU). There will be up to a dozen unions rejecting the deal and they have made it clear that they are not going to be forced into the deal against the wishes of their membership.

Ok so most of the large ones have passed it, as far as I can see.

No - the only union that has completed its vote is the CPSU - the rest of the unions are still balloting. The three named above have recommended a yes vote (along with the PSEU) while most other unions are recommending rejection.

[Dohville]

What happens next is important. Will ICTU say to CPSU, "we got clarification, we are happy, your poll is nullified"?

[toughbutfair]

We must cut the PS bill, however, we cannot expect a PS worker on 30k to get a cut while the higher paid one gets zero. Losing a bonus is not a cut, a bonus is supposed to be a bonus (the clue is in the name).

I (kind of) support them.

[adrem]

No - the only union that has completed its vote is the CPSU - the rest of the unions are still balloting. The three named above have recommended a yes vote (along with the PSEU) while most other unions are recommending rejection.

Not quite - the AHCPS voted 84% to 16% in favour of acceptance

[making waves]

What happens next is important. Will ICTU say to CPSU, "we got clarification, we are happy, your poll is nullified"?

ICTU can say what it wants (and no it cannot nullify a vote of a constituent union) - the CPSU has voted against the deal.

[adrem]

We must cut the PS bill, however, we cannot expect a PS worker on 30k to get a cut while the higher paid one gets zero. Losing a bonus is not a cut, a bonus is supposed to be a bonus (the clue is in the name).

I (kind of) support them.

Well whilst I would agree in the private sector that a bonus is a bonus and generally treated as variable there are a lot of "established practice" issues in the public sector. So if you get overtime every month for 3 years of (say) 30 hours and then you are told that your salary is not being cut but there is no more overtime - do you view that as not a pay cut or actually a pay cut because overtime became part of your normal terms and conditions. Equally if you get a (say) 10% bonus every year for 5 years and at no time is it vetted for performance of any goal (other than doing your job) there is an argument that losing that is losing 10% of your reasonably expected remuneration.

Don't get me wrong - I think Lenihan was wrong to row back on it but its not as simple as a bonus is a bonus