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About LinkBacksI'd also suggest that the person X demands less for state provided services than person Y.Originally Posted by kittyn
I'd also suggest that the person X demands less for state provided services than person Y.
A poster of some consequence...
Couldn't agree more.........
'This life is not a dress rehearsal, we only get one shot at today'
Oh, I'm sure it could be done....
Keep spinning against these people in the media "Average Joe Good. Wealthy Man Bad". Keep saying that phrase over and over, till everyone ringing Liveline is repeating it like a mantra
Then bring in a budget where you seize a wad of their money--cash, assets, whatever----don't touch any one else, except the unemployed. Then call it "a very fair budget" . Flood TV programmes with frowning talking heads who assure everyone "It had to be done" and "More will have to be slashed in the future"
Jeer at them gleefully...
Laugh when they say they didn't "cause the crisis". Yah, boo, suck it up.
If they complain, tell them to "stop moaning"
Tell them to think of the country. and that "everyone is feeling pain"
No, it probably would not have much "economic effect", but sure, it would be great fun watching their misery
Job done.
This strategy worked like a dream with the PS.....
While i enjoyed reading your rant !!!
Is there a specific group of people that you have in your sights?
You are missing the point. People who earn more do pay more. And yes, there is scope for them paying some more.Unfortunately nothing will be 100% fair..........but it will still be a start and be somewhat more just !!
It's of no matter what % of who pays whats, simply those who can afford more pay more...
If some one earns €200k they can afford to pay more tax easier than someone on €30k...
Im not suggesting that they pay vast amounts of more tax..simply enough to make it easier on the little guy...a weekend away less or a few pairs less of BT jeans wont kill anyone ..but skipping a doctors appointment because you cant afford it might just kill someone....fairness and equality !!
The problem is we are too reliant on too few people for our income tax take - 4% earning above €100k pay 48% and the 46% earning between €18,400 and €100k pay the other 52%. The other 50% pay no income tax.
The loss of even a few hundred of the very high earners (above €275k) - through death, illness, redundancy, business collapsing, emigration - and paycuts, loss of bonuses and falling revenue for thousands of others will have a catastrophic effect on our tax take. There are around 11,000 of them and they contribute around €2billion in income tax each year.
While job losses have played a significant part in the collapse of the income tax take in the last two years, pay cuts, loss of overtime, loss of bonuses and collapsing revenues for the self-employed have also been a major factor.
According to the Revenue's own figures as quoted by Lenihan in the Dail, 50% of people are outside the tax net. That is simply unsustainable today and those people will have to be brought into the tax net.
That can only be done by cutting tax credits and allowances so that they pay some income tax. It will also see every other worker paying more income tax.
That is not me being some rabid, right-wing Thatcherite who preys on the low paid and vulnerable (I'm not) - it is simple arithmetic and plain common sense.
While taking the lowest paid out of the tax net was a noble goal, it is simply unaffordable - especially since we also insist on high spending on public services, pensions and social welfare. That is why we have such a massive structural deficit.
To bridge that gap, the tax cuts of the Ahern years for the lowest paid and those on median pay (between €20k and €30k who pay between 2% and 5% in income tax) will have to be reversed in the years ahead. And Lenihan has already flagged that he will do that.
Checck out these links. They make for interesting reading and explain things better than I do.
A little quiz on Ireland’s income tax | Ronan Lyons
Budget 2011 and the eight things on Ireland’s fiscal to-do list | Ronan Lyons
Last edited by Grumpy Jack; 13th May 2010 at 10:51 PM.
How gullible are you guys? - something approaching 50% of people are outside the income tax net because their incomes are so low - bad wages = little tax - but these people are not outside the tax net, they pay VAT (a regressive tax not based on ability to pay), they pay excise duty (a regressive tax not based on ability to pay), they pay the new carbon tax (a regressive tax not based on ability to pay) etc etc. Ireland has the fifth highest level of indirect taxes out of the 27 EU countries -and indirect taxes hit the lowest earners and those on social welfare hardest.
Ireland's total tax take is the fifth lowest in the EU as a % of GDP - but even this is skewed badly in favour of the wealthy. And guess what's happening? - you got it - the government are piling more and more tax on ordinary working people and the unemployed and letting those that bankroll their parties off scot-free.
So you are wrong to claim that 50% of people are outside the tax net - I suggest you wake up and smell what you are shovelling.
First off, the fact that you can even state that a ps worker is unlikely to avail of prsi points to part if the problem within the ps itself, which is the perceived job for life mentality!
Second prsi is not just for unemployment benefit, it covers for a multitude of other safety nets etc also
thirdly, it us a find, which means it is a fund created by people in employment, but shared by all, it's not put into a seperare bank account with your name on it in case you need it fir a rainy day!
It is however an intersting concept that you speak of in that ps workers should nit pay prsi as they are unlikely to use it! If the os wish to seperYe themselves out in this way, do you also agree that os should pay entirely for it's own pension scheme, should exclude itself from being able to avail of FIS etc ?
Progressive and fair taxation = 2012 Merc e250 elegance purchase price/value €47,910 Road Tax:- €156 2005 vw passat 1.9L diesel price/value €8000, Road Tax :- €582
Get real. People on low income pay very little tax of any sort.
The vast bulk of tax (income tax, VAT, VRT and stamp duty) is paid by middle and higher earners (above €50k) simply because they have more disposable income and spend it on higher priced items.
Someone spending a few thousand on one item in BT will pay more VAT than 20 people shopping in Dunnes or Pennys.
Someone forking out €60k for an Audi or a Merc will pay a hell of a lot more VAT and VRT in one go than 10 low earners will pay in VAT and excise duty in a year. And that's before you factor in the petrol to run it. And all the other high-end spending he does in the year.
Simple arithmetic tells you that those with higher diposable incomes who spend it on more expensive goods on a more regular basis contribute far more to the exchequer than those on the minimum wage.
That's why income tax rates on middle and higher earners are not higher - because far more can be gained if they spend the money than can be taken off them in income tax.
That's why the government took in so much revenue during the so-called boom - because middle and higher earners where spending their money on expensive consumers goods like designer clothers, higher spec cars, high-end TVs, overpriced houses and overpriced furniture, and lots of flights abroad, as well as in restaurants, bars and fancy hotels across the country.
When that spending stopped - revenue collapsed. And then fell even further when people employed in those stores, car showrooms, auctioneers, restaurants, bars and hotels lost their jobs precisely because the spending stopped.
People like you give me a real laugh - your solution to everything is make the guy with the money pay. Here's some news, the better-off more than pay their fair share in this country. It's those on the lowest incomes who contribute least. They demand and avail of expensive public services for which they pay little or nothing.
Well guess what? The free ride is over and they're going to have to start contributing just like the rest of us.
Did you even read those links I posted? Ireland's income tax take for median earners (€25k) is around 4% - the OECD average which includes most EU members is 20%. Go figure why we have a big hole in our state finances.
And in no other EU countries do those earning less than €18k pay no income tax.
In the UK, the tax free allowance is £6.5k then all above it comes in at 20 per cent until the higher 40% rate kicks in at £37.5k and the 50% rate at £150k.
In Ireland, including the levies and PRSI people earning above €37,400 are paying 51% tax including PRSI, health levy and income levy while the very highest earners are paying a top rate of 55%.
We cannot afford to have 50% of workers outside the income tax net. It's that simple. And even when FF are booted into oblivion at the next election, FG, Labour and even Sinn Fein if they get into government will have no choice but to bring them into the tax net.
Even Joe Higgins would have no choice but to do it if he became Minister of Finance tomorrow - and no amount of socialist, left wing bluster can hide that unavoidable fact, unpalatable as it is.
Last edited by Grumpy Jack; 14th May 2010 at 12:33 AM.
Do you mean that “jobs for life” will guarantee that PS worker never will burden for welfare system?
In this case, government should introduce 20% “jobs for life” levy and scrap PRSI for permanent PS workers
Why should that happen? Seriously... why? Jobs in the public service are open to everyone to apply for, and unlike the private sector, Daddy can't help you out.
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