Communism and libertarianism have failed- distributism is our hope for the future

[Cael]

So if we confiscate all private property in Ireland, from you bank account right down to your toothbrush and then we dole it back out agani to give every (adult) 1/2,000,000th (or whatever is the per capita share), then what?

He's talking about the means of production (land, banks, factories, insurance companies, etc.) - not the means of consumption, like your tooth brush, car house, etc.

[SevenStars]

It would certainly have had to be accepted when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire.

Yes and no. It was always accepted by the Church in that it was tolerated but there is a difference between toleration of something and belief that it is a natural good. St Basil and St John Chrystomn who lived after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire wanted to persuade people to adopt communism. There was though a different attitude towards the Roman state between the Greek east, the Latin west and the Syriacs, Copts, etc. Outside of some of the radical Anglican ritualists the sociology of the early Church Fathers has been ignored because it doesnt fit neatly into any modern agenda.

[Tombo]

He's talking about the means of production (land, banks, factories, insurance companies, etc.) - not the means of consumption, like your tooth brush, car house, etc.

What about my two cafes?

[Socratus O' Pericles]

from wikipedia
"Distributism, also known as distributionism and distributivism, is a third-way economic philosophy formulated by such Roman Catholic thinkers as G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc to apply the principles of Catholic Social Teaching articulated by the Roman Catholic Church, especially in Pope Leo XIII's encyclical Rerum Novarum[1] and more expansively explained by Pope Pius XI's encyclical Quadragesimo Anno["

Have those f****** not done enough damage without us looking to them for an economic system as well? Let them sell a few chalices and rare works of art and distribute the profits.

[west'sawake]

from wikipedia
"Distributism, also known as distributionism and distributivism, is a third-way economic philosophy formulated by such Roman Catholic thinkers as G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc to apply the principles of Catholic Social Teaching articulated by the Roman Catholic Church, especially in Pope Leo XIII's encyclical Rerum Novarum[1] and more expansively explained by Pope Pius XI's encyclical Quadragesimo Anno["

Have those f****** not done enough damage without us looking to them for an economic system as well? Let them sell a few chalices and rare works of art and distribute the profits.

Who said the quality of posts has improved around here! The irrational, frothing at the mouth is still around.

[owedtojoy]

Libertarianism is another God that failed.

The Libs rejoiced when Bush & Cheney got elected .. but I did not hear one raise his or her voice against torture, illegal wiretapping and arbitrary imprisonment. Nor did I ever hear a libertarian protest the activities of large corporations who earn money from poisoning people like tobacco companies. What LIbertarians hate most of all is the liberal state with its power to tax, educate and raise people from poverty. And anything they criticised the state for, well it was ok if a corporation did it.

In the end, the Libertarians were just Hobbesians in disguise, despite their sham belief in Locke and Jefferson. Hobbes believed we endow institutions with sovereignty to protect our lives and property. Libertarians believe in the minimalist "night-watchman state". It turns out the night-watchman is not an aged old coot going around with a lamp ... he turns out to be the "military-industrial complex" engaged in perpetual war, Hobbes' veritable Soverwign, and in permanent command. Libertarians were prepared to power-worship him as long as they could keep any wealth they had their hands on.

When you think of Libertarians, don't think of the US Founding Fathers, think of the Latin American millionaires who put up with military coups to prevent "communism" i.e. losing their wealth. Libertarianism is alive and well in myriad funded "think-tanks" like the Cato Institute, and it is not dead yet, ony discredited.

[Almanac]

Who said the quality of posts has improved around here! The irrational, frothing at the mouth is still around.

Just ignore West, which I do aplenty.

[Cael]

Yes and no. It was always accepted by the Church in that it was tolerated but there is a difference between toleration of something and belief that it is a natural good. St Basil and St John Chrystomn who lived after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire wanted to persuade people to adopt communism. There was though a different attitude towards the Roman state between the Greek east, the Latin west and the Syriacs, Copts, etc. Outside of some of the radical Anglican ritualists the sociology of the early Church Fathers has been ignored because it doesnt fit neatly into any modern agenda.

I guess the Christian tradition always contained both philosophies. Certainly communism would have been quite alien to the Old Testiment, but Jesus' sacrifice was to cancel the concept of debt and retribution.

[Almanac]

The great rising of 1381 a minor affair???

The Marxist revolutions you are refering too were clearly capitalist.

That's a handy explanation.

[Almanac]

You have to admit that compared to Mondragón, that is extremely miniscule.

Would you be prepared to say that something even 5% of the scale of Mondragón is possible in Ireland.

We should probably measure these kind of thing in units of Mondragón.

So the examples you've shown me must surely be no more than 0.001 Mondragóns.

You can look at this pessimistically: "we have so little!"
You can look at this optimistically: "we have so much potential for growth!"

Either way, we need to get cracking to get those numbers climbing. It probaby won't suffice to let this stuff happen "organically", people need to organise to get stuff done!

We have to walk before we can run.