BOSI - Job losses 750

[tonic]

And still you don't address the salient point.. that those having assets are not one blind bit of use to those who have debt

I was not discussing individual debt, I was discussing TOTAL HOUSEHOLD DEBT and TOTAL HOUSEHOLD WEALTH. I do hope that's clear now.


Even on your terms, if the average household has wealth twice it’s debt without including the family home, then on average we, as in the country, don’t have a problem, such as DS was trying to make out we had.

[rockofcashel]

I was not discussing individual debt, I was discussing TOTAL HOUSEHOLD DEBT and TOTAL HOUSEHOLD WEALTH. I do hope that's clear now.


Even on your terms, if the average household has wealth twice it’s debt without including the family home, then on average we, as in the country, don’t have a problem, such as DS was trying to make out we had.

First of all.. do you actually believe that the average household in Ireland has twice as much wealth as debt in Ireland, when excluding the nominal value of the family home ?

Secondly, it still doesn;t make a difference to the hundreds of thousands of households who even with the family home, could not cover their liabilities with their assets if they had to realise those assets in the morning.

For example, take myself.. I own assets which outweigh my total debt, but if all my debts were suddenly called in tomorrow morning, I would not be able to realise these assets quickly without suffering a severe loss on their value. And I don't need to do it. What about those people who are slowly sinking into a debt mire as their savings are running down due to a loss of income in the past 6 months ?

If you honestly believe that their is no real problem with the level of household debt in huge numbers of households in this country, because of some arbitrary figure which tells you that overall asset worth in this country exceeds overall death, than at best you are deluded and at worst you are deliberately disingenuous

[tonic]

If you honestly believe that their is no real problem with the level of household debt in huge numbers of households in this country, because of some arbitrary figure which tells you that overall asset worth in this country exceeds overall death, than at best you are deluded and at worst you are deliberately disingenuous

You are answering arguments I have NOT made, maybe that goes down well electioneering in Tipperary, but I'm not prepared to let you away with it here.

If I want to say that people in negative equity with no other assets do not have a problem, I'll be the one to say it, until then why don't you reply to what I have said.

So far as the country is concerned, which IS the argument I'm making, for the one third of householders who do have a mortgage of any sort, the average owed is slightly over 200,000, roughly the value of the average house. On the line but no real problem unless they also happen to be unemployed and single or both unemployed if married. That of course also leaves two thirds of households who don't have a mortgage of any value.

The above only looks at mortgages and house values, does not take into account the 250 billion in personal assets outside of the family home and even so we can see that only about 3/3.5% of householders fall into the "at risk" category of having a mortgage and being unemployed. How many of those 3/3.5% would be covered by "other assets" I have no way of knowing, but 50% would seem reasonable for working purposes. That would leave us with 1.5/1.75% of households in the situation you describe, very unfortunate for the individuals concerned, but not a problem of national proportions.


ROC, deluded or disingenuous are not the only options when someone disagrees with you and you have a f.cking neck to suggest they are.

[Cassandra Syndrome]

No, you're still barking up the wrong tree. I was just wondering how long it would take you to realise it.

The national Household wealth to which I referred is about twice the national household debt. Household debt is calculated by including mortgage debt and all debts, whereas the household wealth is usually calculated excluding housing assets. If you include housing assets our wealth exceeds debt by a factor of 4.

CS wrote
"The country has about 100 Billion in savings. We are in debt 5 times as much as we save.

Lights out."

I replied
"And we've no assets at all for all that debt? That's shocking so it is."

Cue ROC jumping in with both size 11's

As you can see the original post to which I replied was making a big deal about the total household debt without even mentioning the balancing household wealth.
It was at this point you threw in your tuppence worth, managing to pick up the wrong end of both sticks in your anxiety to have a go at me.

Think before you speak or post or read even, that might do it.

Net Financial liabilities in Ireland is 107 Billion Euro. THe current value of houses at 2009 average prices is just over 300 Billion. So that pushes us back into the black. Non Financial Assets, Land, Natural Resources, Buildings, Capital Goods, Stock of goods adds up to about a Trillion Euro.

[Cork]

I find it odd so little done with 750 jobs going.

[kerrynorth]

I find it odd so little done with 750 jobs going.

What do you want them to do - subsidise the bank's losses to save the jobs?

[hammer]

Any yet we are trying to attract Banks into IFSC

What industry will the Bank staff be upskilled to ?

[constitutionus]

ill give you a hint

"do you want fries with that?"

(im not kidding ! its the only growth industry left now )