Contract Award for appointment to a panel for the provision of legal services to NAMA

[evercloserunion]

As I have previously stated NAMA is a massive bailout for the professional classes.

Is it really wrong to ask the following?

- Has any of these firms acted previously for a Bank with Assets in NAMA?
-Has any of these firms acted for a developer with debts going into NAMA.?
-Has any of these firm's partners relatives in politics?
-What is the average chargeout rate charged by these firms?


We saw that the firm awarded the contract for Tax advice (actually why does NAMA need tax advice)to NAMA has a senior tax partner related to Brian Lenihan AND also acted as auditors to one of the banks.

Will Fine Gael howl about this? Not on your life. Some of the firms mentioned have direct connections to Fine Gael.

This country is massively currupt and again the taxpayer is being screwed again by professional mobsters.

We've discussed this before over on MachineNation. My problem was with understanding how on earth the government could find a large, capable, experienced Irish firm which had not at one point had its thumb in the property pie. It was what was keeping our economy going for years FFS, a firm that did not deal with property developers or banks would not have survived.

You can point to connections between (for example) Arthur Cox and FF all you want. Such connections would be a bigger cause of concern if Arthur Cox was an unheard of firm or had a bad commercial reputation. But it doesn't. Cox is one of the biggest firms in the country, even take away any alleged connections with FF and it is hard to think of a line-up which would not involve them.

There is, however, a relatively large potential for conflicts of interest here. I would put that down to the small size of Irish society (and in particular the small size of the upper echelons of Irish society). The potential for a conflict of interest is a large part of life in the commercial world, and especially in Ireland. It is ludicrous to suggest that the government should not seek to hire a firm which has not acted for property developers or banks in the past, finding a suitable firm that meets that criterion is just not feasible. The question is how best to regulate potential conflicts of interest.

[Cassandra Syndrome]

I'm sure the EU are currently pondering on how the small size of Irish society (and in particular the small size of the upper echelons of Irish society) could mount up to 150 Billion Euro of property loans excluding personal mortgages from the peasants.

[Libero]

Your being ridiculous. Of course NAMA are going to source legal services from firms who have experience in property law and conveyancing. The firms on this list will be mainly used to "convey" in the legal sense, land/property from the Banks to NAMA.

Would you like them to have hired solicitors with no expertise in the area?

Seriously, I know people have an absolute right to be upset over the mess made, but a little rational thought would not be bad.

Rational thought will lead a rational person to question the wisdom of having NAMA use law firms that long relied heavily on NAMA debtors for fee income.

Along with the banks, those firms will have the inside track on NAMA's approach in general, and - importantly - how it tends to act in certain specific situations. That information is very valuable to a NAMA debtor in such a specific situation.

One alternative would be for the state to invite lawyers to join NAMA on secondment. It's common practice in other countries and it can't be argued anymore that Irish solicitors are too busy and fixed on climbing the firm career ladder to consider such a secondment.

At the moment, NAMA will have a tiny in-house legal function, farming out legal work to these firms. It's very questionable how such a small group of people can keep track of the work being done, nevermind ensure that the firms keep inside information away from interested clients of those firms.

[katy brock]

We've discussed this before over on MachineNation. My problem was with understanding how on earth the government could find a large, capable, experienced Irish firm which had not at one point had its thumb in the property pie. It was what was keeping our economy going for years FFS, a firm that did not deal with property developers or banks would not have survived.

You can point to connections between (for example) Arthur Cox and FF all you want. Such connections would be a bigger cause of concern if Arthur Cox was an unheard of firm or had a bad commercial reputation. But it doesn't. Cox is one of the biggest firms in the country, even take away any alleged connections with FF and it is hard to think of a line-up which would not involve them.

There is, however, a relatively large potential for conflicts of interest here. I would put that down to the small size of Irish society (and in particular the small size of the upper echelons of Irish society). The potential for a conflict of interest is a large part of life in the commercial world, and especially in Ireland. It is ludicrous to suggest that the government should not seek to hire a firm which has not acted for property developers or banks in the past, finding a suitable firm that meets that criterion is just not feasible. The question is how best to regulate potential conflicts of interest.

You make some good points, but leaving Arhur Cox out of it (for the time being), take a look at No.1 on the list.

Wasn't Alfred Thornton a Bank of Ireland in-house solicitor until relatively recently? An employee of that Bank. Some cynical people might view this new turn of events with a slightly jaundiced eye.

[evercloserunion]

Rational thought will lead a rational person to question the wisdom of having NAMA use law firms that long relied heavily on NAMA debtors for fee income.

Along with the banks, those firms will have the inside track on NAMA's approach in general, and - importantly - how it tends to act in certain specific situations. That information is very valuable to a NAMA debtor in such a specific situation.

One alternative would be for the state to invite lawyers to join NAMA on secondment. It's common practice in other countries and it can't be argued anymore that Irish solicitors are too busy and fixed on climbing the firm career ladder to consider such a secondment.

At the moment, NAMA will have a tiny in-house legal function, farming out legal work to these firms. It's very questionable how such a small group of people can keep track of the work being done, nevermind ensure that the firms keep inside information away from interested clients of those firms.

I'd be interested to hear more about the secondment idea, can you ellaborate? It's the only actual alternative I have heard proposed.

We should absolutely avoid conflicts of interest where we can, but potential conflict is much different to an actual conflict. Many services provided in the commercial world today involved the balancing, or conflicting, of different interests.

[odie1kanobe]

Your being ridiculous. Of course NAMA are going to source legal services from firms who have experience in property law and conveyancing. The firms on this list will be mainly used to "convey" in the legal sense, land/property from the Banks to NAMA.

Would you like them to have hired solicitors with no expertise in the area?

Seriously, I know people have an absolute right to be upset over the mess made, but a little rational thought would not be bad.

Corelli

Stop trying to use rational thought when there is a stampeding rant of charging bullsh1t as evidenced on here regularly.

Pretty much all legal firms of any size has been involved in property.................thats what they get paid to do.

[katy brock]

Corelli

Stop trying to use rational thought when there is a stampeding rant of charging bullsh1t as evidenced on here regularly.

Pretty much all legal firms of any size has been involved in property.................thats what they get paid to do.

You certainly have a point, but surely you can't deny that the plain people of Ireland might, well, think this is a total crock of of shyte.

Jobs for the boys/girls. Their words. Not mine. Take a straw poll yourself and see what results you get.

[odie1kanobe]

You certainly have a point, but surely you can't deny that the plain people of Ireland might, well, think this is a total crock of of shyte.

Jobs for the boys/girls. Their words. Not mine. Take a straw poll yourself and see what results you get.

Well is there a huge number of law firms out there with a high degree of specialism in property that have not been involved in property for 10 years ?

[DCon]

Cynical no, innaccurate probably yes.
You tell us, the donations are published.

Now, all of the above bar the opening and closing sentences is essentially irrelevant because anonymous donations worth less than €126.97 are allowed. That rule about one person only being allowed donate €2,539.48 to a politician? They can just donate €5,000 anonymously in €126.96 installments from their personal bank account. A person wants to give more than €5078.95 in multiple donations to various candidates but doesn’t want people knowing he has done it? Do it all in batches of €126.96 – or do it from your personal account and just don’t declare it. It’s simple.

For the record: According to our files (sheet 4, “Missing TDs”) there are 60 currently serving TDs who have never declared a monetary donation of more than €648.37, and therefore may not have a political donations account. These include Michael Lowry, Bertie Ahern, Roisin Shorthall, Enda Kenny, Dermot Ahern, Leo Varadkar and Mary Harney.

Want to bypass our donations system? No problem – The Story

[birthday]

Well is there a huge number of law firms out there with a high degree of specialism in property that have not been involved in property for 10 years ?

Do you think that the law firms 'specialising in property' for the last ten years did a good job?