Good luck to the PS workers.

[Pabilito]

Well done! Any other gems of wisdom? Any ideas on how to get Ireland out of this economic mess? Or are you, like the other FF spin merchants in here, just here to muddy the waters so that the corrupt few can continue to hoodwink and rob the honest many who live on both sides of the Public and Private SEctor?

Idiot. Read some of the postings here.

Social partnership caused the economic mess.. i.e. the PS and politicians divvying up the spoils between themselves during the good times. Awarding each other huge increases and topping up social welfare just to make it all look nice. This in turn fuelled the boom. Now we are left with the ridicules situation where the sheltered PS sector are grossly inflated and paid far more than the private sector while social welfare levels are interfering with competitiveness. We have had bankers etc for centuries but Social Partnership is a new disease.

So the way to get the country out of the economic mess is to reverse the above and restore normality.

[fiannafailure]

Eh, they ARE investigating people -

Almost ?½ billion saved through social welfare fraud crackdown2009Press ReleasesPress OfficeThe Department of Social and Family Affairs

Nice to see the hysteria from one class against another class is still alive and kicking (downwards) in Ireland. Perhaps we should remove Travellers rights as well?

However, it is somewhat regrettable that the ODCE, who are one of the bodies established to investigate Corporate wrongdoing appear to be lagging far behind in relation to investigations. Perhaps you should insist that the ODCE become a bit more proactive in finding out what is going on with working capital/tax money, Anglo Irish? Or is it because White collar crime hurts all of us "middle class" people?

Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement

Jesus. Check your facts out will you.

Or do you want to employ MORE Public Servants to investigate Dole Fraud etc, at more expense to the state???

And how about this

http://www.politics.ie/economy/12280...ml#post2412547

[slumdog1971]

Social partnership caused the economic mess.. i.e. the PS and politicians divvying up the spoils between themselves during the good times. Awarding each other huge increases and topping up social welfare just to make it all look nice. This in turn fuelled the boom. Now we are left with the ridicules situation where the sheltered PS sector are grossly inflated and paid far more than the private sector while social welfare levels are interfering with competitiveness. We have had bankers etc for centuries but Social Partnership is a new disease.

So the way to get the country out of the economic mess is to reverse the above and restore normality.

You are an Idiot.!

"Social Partnership caused the economic mess"...Why don't you ******************** off and read a bit more.

[paulp]

Why is it a bad idea?
In relation to Shell and changing the rules I'm a little perplexed.

We've changed the rules on PS Pay
We've changed the rules to save the banks
We've changed the rules to save dodgy developer deals
But we can't change the rules a Minister made on his own with one of the Biggest multinational companies in the world?

Do you see why many right thinking people feel somewhat angered by the naked double standards being adopted by the gang of chancers who slug their way our Dail?

Regarding the Horse racing thing - it doesn't cost much. The minister for Finance announces these changes at Budget Time - that's pretty much it. He does it every year, and the FInance Act reflects these announcements. THe only cost is to the rich horsy people, who have been cossetted as much as the slugs in Dail Eireann

I think I mis-read your post on Shell as nationlize the field, yes factor in taxes from Shell and I believe there will be substantial tax paid by shell (definetly in billions).
What rules are we changing on PS pay - we don't have a upward only review clause. (although did in benchmarking)

On the horse racing - there are a lot of lower paid employed in the industry, I think changing the rules won't generate that much tax, but will result in lower employment in the sector. This lower employment is the cost I was referring to.

[inthemire]

Social partnership caused the economic mess.. i.e. the PS and politicians divvying up the spoils between themselves during the good times. Awarding each other huge increases and topping up social welfare just to make it all look nice. This in turn fuelled the boom. Now we are left with the ridicules situation where the sheltered PS sector are grossly inflated and paid far more than the private sector while social welfare levels are interfering with competitiveness. We have had bankers etc for centuries but Social Partnership is a new disease.

So the way to get the country out of the economic mess is to reverse the above and restore normality.

No It didn't. This is NOT true and you're intelligent enough to realise that this is NOT True. Sadly, you're either deluded enough or are a spin merchant for FF to state this idiocy.

To whom did the banks give ridiculous amounts of unsecured, dangerous, loans? Public or Private Sector people?

To whom did the Government give Tax breaks to facilitate this greed? Public or Private Sector people?

To whom did the Government allow "light touch" (read NO touch) regulation during the boom times? Public or Private Sector people?

Your spin is not fooling me. It fooled many for a long time. Public Servants didn't cause this mess. Banks and Developers aided by wanna be Private Sector Government interests caused this mess. Most economic commentators of note who hasn't been paid(tainted) by an indigenous Irish bank to state the opposite, has said that our economy was destroyed NOT by public sector costs, but by the housing bubble and dangerous (corrupt???) banking loan policies.

Shame on you.
Without giving you a history lesson, Benchmarking awards were made to Public Servants to CATCH UP on private sector pay during the 1990s.

If your assertion is true then how many Public Servants live in houses worth more than 1 million euro. How many private sector people do?

[Pabilito]

You are an Idiot.!

"Social Partnership caused the economic mess"...Why don't you ******************** off and read a bit more.

Why not engage in the subsatance of the argument?.. why do you hide behind personal insults?..

[hammer]

If there is deflation in 2010 it will give the Government an easy excuse to cut PS pay further and social welfare.

If PS workers cant afford a 6% gross pay cut we are in deep trouble. It was scandalous that this cut applied to people earning less than €30,000 and not to the high paid.

My belief is that it is also now PS worker v PS worker and not just Private v Public.

We have a lot to thank this Government for - scumbags

[Pabilito]

No It didn't. This is NOT true and you're intelligent enough to realise that this is NOT True. Sadly, you're either deluded enough or are a spin merchant for FF to state this idiocy.

To whom did the banks give ridiculous amounts of unsecured, dangerous, loans? Public or Private Sector people?

To whom did the Government give Tax breaks to facilitate this greed? Public or Private Sector people?

To whom did the Government allow "light touch" (read NO touch) regulation during the boom times? Public or Private Sector people?

Your spin is not fooling me. It fooled many for a long time. Public Servants didn't cause this mess. Banks and Developers aided by wanna be Private Sector Government interests caused this mess. Most economic commentators of note who hasn't been paid(tainted) by an indigenous Irish bank to state the opposite, has said that our economy was destroyed NOT by public sector costs, but by the housing bubble and dangerous (corrupt???) banking loan policies.

Shame on you.
Without giving you a history lesson, Benchmarking awards were made to Public Servants to CATCH UP on private sector pay during the 1990s.

If your assertion is true then how many Public Servants live in houses worth more than 1 million euro. How many private sector people do?

So now PS have the opportunity to CATCH UP again on private sector pay, except this time its going down down down. Anyway PS pay should be significantly less than private sector to reflect the sheltered nature and fantastic pension. You can't expect to have it every way.

There's not many houses worth more than 1 million euro these days and anyone foolish to have bought at that price has taken a big hit.The vast majority of people are private sector and very very few of them live in mansions, enjoy the tax breaks etc. You just can't do that if you work in an ordinary job as the vast majority do..

Social partnership was a Bertie illness and the sooner we can get back to normality the better.

[charley]

how many of the current government departments can be scrapped due to the downturn,
if can lose 3or4 of them redeploy or dismiss the public servants in them .how much would we save?

[DCon]

how many of the current government departments can be scrapped due to the downturn,
if can lose 3or4 of them redeploy or dismiss the public servants in them .how much would we save?

Using Roddy Molloy's payoff as a template, this would cost a fortune.