Good luck to the PS workers.

[Baron von Biffo]

There is no justification for the average public service wage being 25% above the average in the private sector

Back to the books Tonic, you're getting your spins mixed up

[DCon]

But you know quite well that not one banker or developer will ever go to jail for their crimes - and the tax payer will be forced to keep them from bankruptcy.

They took out Galway Tent insurance to cover themselves. Quite a smart move in hindsight.

[toughbutfair]

But you know quite well that not one banker or developer will ever go to jail for their crimes - and the tax payer will be forced to keep them from bankruptcy.

Sadly - you are probably right.

I just want to get the point across that just because I am right wing doesn't mean I have any more time for the bankers/devlopers/auditors than anyone else.

[inthemire]

I have said in many threads that the bankers and developers should be hammered with jail and/or bankruptcy

Your argument about "not causing this" is a losing one though, as they took pay increases in the boom despite "not causing this"

Ok, fair enough.

However, Jail or bankruptcy won't plug the hole in the finances. We need ideas and/or solutions - no 1 solution will solve this problem.

Therefore as parts of the solution and until the economic situation improves:-
1. Cut PS pay but ONLY once only - an annual cut is just not on!
2. Stop bailing out Anglo as part of the solution - - let the market decide!! it's the 2nd biggest issue after NAMA
3. Rescind the NAMA legislation - it's flawed and is being enacted to look after Bankers and Developers only. Can you see NAMA taking on people whose Mortgage is in arrears??
3. Either fully nationalise or let the "High Street" banks go about their own business independently of public funds - the way we're doing it at present will keep a drip feed of public money flowing into the banks with no way of cutting it off.

4. Factor in Tax from Shell - all cosy deals are off until the economic situation improves
5. Close the Seanad until the economic sitaution improves
6. Remove many of the Quangos (yes, I know they are PS, but they were set up by the current government to look after friends by giving them jobs for life) until the economic situation improves.
7. Remove all unvouched expenses from TDs - they're the only people in the World afaik who have this facility
8. Cap all Salaries of anyone in the PS at 250,00 including doctors, barristers, CEOs including performance bonuses

10. Slap on a Wealth tax for any Priv Sector employee earning more than 250,000 per annum, including CEOs.

9. Get the higher paid PS strokers who recently pulled a fast one to have their percentage pay reduced by only 3%

11. Rescind the tax breaks on Horse Racing stud fees - its a rich persons tax break
12. Rescind the public money paid to Horse Racing Ireland for the "prize money" at Racing events - it's around 30 million in PUBLIC Funds every year - and this goes to enormously wealthy people at present!
13. Put a 1 cent tax on Text messages.

Any other ideas? every little helps..!!

[Baron von Biffo]

They took out Galway Tent insurance to cover themselves. Quite a smart move in hindsight.

Very true. They can pat themselves on the back as the contemplate the wreckage they've left behind from the comfort of their Spanish Villas.

[DCon]

Ok, fair enough.

However, Jail or bankruptcy won't plug the hole in the finances. We need ideas and/or solutions - no 1 solution will solve this problem.

Therefore as parts of the solution and until the economic situation improves:-
2. Stop bailing out Anglo as part of the solution - - let the market decide!! it's the 2nd biggest issue after NAMA

The State owns Anglo. The Market has no involvement.

[Gryire]

Why can't you understand that PS didn't cause this mess? Private sector banking, development and Government leaders caused it.

The government are part of the public service.

[toughbutfair]

Ok, fair enough.

However, Jail or bankruptcy won't plug the hole in the finances. We need ideas and/or solutions - no 1 solution will solve this problem.

Therefore as parts of the solution and until the economic situation improves:-
1. Cut PS pay but ONLY once only - an annual cut is just not on!
2. Stop bailing out Anglo as part of the solution - - let the market decide!! it's the 2nd biggest issue after NAMA
3. Rescind the NAMA legislation - it's flawed and is being enacted to look after Bankers and Developers only. Can you see NAMA taking on people whose Mortgage is in arrears??
3. Either fully nationalise or let the "High Street" banks go about their own business independently of public funds - the way we're doing it at present will keep a drip feed of public money flowing into the banks with no way of cutting it off.

4. Factor in Tax from Shell - all cosy deals are off until the economic situation improves
5. Close the Seanad until the economic sitaution improves
6. Remove many of the Quangos (yes, I know they are PS, but they were set up by the current government to look after friends by giving them jobs for life) until the economic situation improves.
7. Remove all unvouched expenses from TDs - they're the only people in the World afaik who have this facility
8. Cap all Salaries of anyone in the PS at 250,00 including doctors, barristers, CEOs including performance bonuses

10. Slap on a Wealth tax for any Priv Sector employee earning more than 250,000 per annum, including CEOs.

9. Get the higher paid PS strokers who recently pulled a fast one to have their percentage pay reduced by only 3%

11. Rescind the tax breaks on Horse Racing stud fees - its a rich persons tax break
12. Rescind the public money paid to Horse Racing Ireland for the "prize money" at Racing events - it's around 30 million in PUBLIC Funds every year - and this goes to enormously wealthy people at present!
13. Put a 1 cent tax on Text messages.

Any other ideas? every little helps..!!

Seems sensible. I'd also cut pensions (state and private) by 10% and cut PS wage and dole and I'd cap the PS wage at 100k.

[dub14]

Ok, fair enough.

However, Jail or bankruptcy won't plug the hole in the finances. We need ideas and/or solutions - no 1 solution will solve this problem.

Therefore as parts of the solution and until the economic situation improves:-
1. Cut PS pay but ONLY once only - an annual cut is just not on!
2. Stop bailing out Anglo as part of the solution - - let the market decide!! it's the 2nd biggest issue after NAMA
3. Rescind the NAMA legislation - it's flawed and is being enacted to look after Bankers and Developers only. Can you see NAMA taking on people whose Mortgage is in arrears??
3. Either fully nationalise or let the "High Street" banks go about their own business independently of public funds - the way we're doing it at present will keep a drip feed of public money flowing into the banks with no way of cutting it off.

4. Factor in Tax from Shell - all cosy deals are off until the economic situation improves
5. Close the Seanad until the economic sitaution improves
6. Remove many of the Quangos (yes, I know they are PS, but they were set up by the current government to look after friends by giving them jobs for life) until the economic situation improves.
7. Remove all unvouched expenses from TDs - they're the only people in the World afaik who have this facility
8. Cap all Salaries of anyone in the PS at 250,00 including doctors, barristers, CEOs including performance bonuses

10. Slap on a Wealth tax for any Priv Sector employee earning more than 250,000 per annum, including CEOs.

9. Get the higher paid PS strokers who recently pulled a fast one to have their percentage pay reduced by only 3%

11. Rescind the tax breaks on Horse Racing stud fees - its a rich persons tax break
12. Rescind the public money paid to Horse Racing Ireland for the "prize money" at Racing events - it's around 30 million in PUBLIC Funds every year - and this goes to enormously wealthy people at present!
13. Put a 1 cent tax on Text messages.

Any other ideas? every little helps..!!

I'll add some fuel to the fire then,. Assuming increments really are performance based (as I'm frequenty assured) then anyone who engages in this go-slow is presumably disqaulifying themselves from their increment this year. Another few hundred million saved and as you say every little helps.

[inthemire]

Why can't you understand economics? This mess, and it is a beauty, was caused by a range of factors but mainly delusion. We were too dependent on the property sector. It was funding most of the pay increases and increases in numbers in the Public Sector for the last 10 years.

We got ahead of ourselves, now we have to claw it back.

Arguing that if we didn't have NAMA we could fund these services is like arguing that if we use the money in our savings account we can keep that 2 grand a month appartment even though we only earn 1800.

We have a structural deficit. We make less that we spend. We need to bring those to things into line. That involves spending roughly what we take in.

We take in 36 Billion. We have 36 billion to spend. We spend 54 billion. Need to remove 18 billion from somewhere. 2 thirds of the 54 billion is PS pay and Social Welfare.

Ah hell, there's no point, you just aren't going to get it. This is a multiannual issue that can't be solved by finding a few billion from any one source.

You're wrong. I get it. Read my last post. Now, GIVE ME SOME OF YOUR IDEAS TO PLUG THIS HOLE.

I'm serious. The Goverment have nobody who can deliver either ideas nor solutions. They've been hiding and obfuscating for the last year and a half.

WE did NOT get ahead of ourselves.
I didn't buy another house, nor a more expensive car. Nor did I take a loan out to "develop" properties.

YOU, or your FF friends on the other hand did! Don't include me as part of the "we" ok!

This mantra of "we're all to blame" is being peddled by FF supporters/apologists or people who stand to gain by the Bank bailout & NAMA

So, I ask again, for all your economic maths, give me some ideas on how to solve this deficit.