Good luck to the PS workers.

[sauntersplash]

Nobody in the business world would go on strike because they understand business, less money in means less wages.

What the hell are you on about? Take a look at the history trade unionism. Every bloody significant strike was in the private sector.

Every gain in the quality of employment of working people up until the eighties was the result of a private sector strike.

The private sector isn't striking now because their unions have faded as a result of perceived irrelevance.......until now.

What is the "business world" anyway?

[toughbutfair]

While my friends had a moan after a 10% cut (who wouldn't) they realised that it is the way it has to be.

Why don't PS understand that we dont have 2006 level income?

[toughbutfair]

Why can't you understand that PS didn't cause this mess? Private sector banking, development and Government leaders caused it.

Why can't you understand that the Government could raise several billion if they rescinded Mr. Ray "Honest" Burke's decision NOT to tax Shell over in Mayo. Or several billion more if they rescinded the unbelievable decision to save a hopelessly corrupt, failed, and zombie Anglo Irish bank? And several billion more still if they revoked this hopeless NAMA legislation which is set out purely to save their developer friends and their banking friends.

Or does this not fit with your FF agenda?

By all means cut PS Wages as part of a solution.

But lets get some perspective here. Shell are contributing nothing to this mess. Nor are the people who caused it - the Banks and developers. But you refuse to either see this, nor factor this in as part of a solution. It's "vision" like yours which caused this mess.

I have said in many threads that the bankers and developers should be hammered with jail and/or bankruptcy

Your argument about "not causing this" is a losing one though, as they took pay increases in the boom despite "not causing this"

[Baron von Biffo]

Why can't you understand that PS didn't cause this mess? Private sector banking, development and Government leaders caused it.

Not to forget private sector accountancy firms that audited our dodgy banks and either didn't spot the crooked deals or spotted them but covered them up.

[The Caped Cod]

Not to forget private sector accountancy firms that audited our dodgy banks and either didn't spot the crooked deals or spotted them but covered them up.

zing!

[toughbutfair]

Not to forget private sector accountancy firms that audited our dodgy banks and either didn't spot the crooked deals or spotted them but covered them up.

You are right - there should be an enquiry into this as it wasn't exactly complicated, auditing 101 check director loans and movements around year end.

[Rebel_Yell]

Why can't you understand that PS didn't cause this mess? Private sector banking, development and Government leaders caused it.

Why can't you understand that the Government could raise several billion if they rescinded Mr. Ray "Honest" Burke's decision NOT to tax Shell over in Mayo. Or several billion more if they rescinded the unbelievable decision to save a hopelessly corrupt, failed, and zombie Anglo Irish bank? And several billion more still if they revoked this hopeless NAMA legislation which is set out purely to save their developer friends and their banking friends.

Or does this not fit with your FF agenda?

By all means cut PS Wages as part of a solution.

But lets get some perspective here. Shell are contributing nothing to this mess. Nor are the people who caused it - the Banks and developers. But you refuse to either see this, nor factor this in as part of a solution. It's "vision" like yours which caused this mess.

Why can't you understand economics? This mess, and it is a beauty, was caused by a range of factors but mainly delusion. We were too dependent on the property sector. It was funding most of the pay increases and increases in numbers in the Public Sector for the last 10 years.

We got ahead of ourselves, now we have to claw it back.

Arguing that if we didn't have NAMA we could fund these services is like arguing that if we use the money in our savings account we can keep that 2 grand a month appartment even though we only earn 1800.

We have a structural deficit. We make less that we spend. We need to bring those to things into line. That involves spending roughly what we take in.

We take in 36 Billion. We have 36 billion to spend. We spend 54 billion. Need to remove 18 billion from somewhere. 2 thirds of the 54 billion is PS pay and Social Welfare.

Ah hell, there's no point, you just aren't going to get it. This is a multiannual issue that can't be solved by finding a few billion from any one source.

[tonic]

There is no justification for the average public service wage being 25% above the average in the private sector, there never was and previous Governments are at fault for letting that situation come to pass. The adjustment now is a tough one but it has to be done, the reality is that given their pension arrangements, they should be on 20% less than their private sector equivalent, but no one is asking them to do that, they are just being asked to bring a little reality to their pay situation.

[paulp]

Why can't you understand that PS didn't cause this mess? Private sector banking, development and Government leaders caused it.

99% of private sector did not cause the mess, same with public sector.

However, when PS unions come out and say that they can deliver 1 billion euro in cost reduction in PS with efficiency programs, etc. but are going to block this type of reform,
we can then say that whatever the size of the problem next year, 1 billion of it will be PS unions refusing reform

[Cael]

I have said in many threads that the bankers and developers should be hammered with jail and/or bankruptcy

But you know quite well that not one banker or developer will ever go to jail for their crimes - and the tax payer will be forced to keep them from bankruptcy.