Good luck to the PS workers.

[sharper]

You may or may not have noticed but the public sector has taken pay cuts. I'm talking from here on in. If the government were to give an assurance to PS workers that there would be no more pay cuts then I'm sure there would be no work to rule.

And the point is that so long as cuts need to be made it's impossible to exempt the PS pay bill from those cuts.

So if we still need to cut spending in the next budget (and we almost certainly will) then PS pay will be cut further. So will social welfare and so will other spending areas.

The pay bill is just too large a part of our outgoings to ignore. What you're asking from the government is impossible.

And in case you didn't notice the work to rule is on the basis of reversing the pay cuts, not a promise for no further cuts. Your confidence in the rationality of union leaders is indeed admirable but has little basis in reality.

[toughbutfair]

You may or may not have noticed but the public sector has taken pay cuts. I'm talking from here on in. If the government were to give an assurance to PS workers that there would be no more pay cuts then I'm sure there would be no work to rule.

The government has to make more cuts in budget 2011. I'd go for pensioners (state and PS) who haven't lost a cent in this recession and cut them about 10%, then crack down on fraud and waste and cut infrastructure first. Then I'd have a look .

[Rebel_Yell]

You may or may not have noticed but the public sector has taken pay cuts. I'm talking from here on in. If the government were to give an assurance to PS workers that there would be no more pay cuts then I'm sure there would be no work to rule.

If the government guaranteed a benchmarking review of PS pay, we might actually figure out whether we are overpaying our PS or not. I suspect that after the last Budget and other cuts PS and private sector aren't too far out of whack at this stage.

A lot depends on the PS. There are reforms that they can make to avoid the need for salary cuts. They may in time even see restoration of previous salary levels. But not with the work to rule plan. McCarthy has about 3 billion of low hanging fruit. The PS will either have to tell us where the money is going to come from or have an economist do it for them. I would always rather the guys on the ground did it.

[Fir Bolg]

And the point is that so long as cuts need to be made it's impossible to exempt the PS pay bill from those cuts.

So if we still need to cut spending in the next budget (and we almost certainly will) then PS pay will be cut further.

Then there will almost definitley be all out strikes next year.

The pay bill is just too large a part of our outgoings to ignore. What you're asking from the government is impossible.

And in case you didn't notice the work to rule is on the basis of reversing the pay cuts, not a promise for no further cuts. Your confidence in the rationality of union leaders is indeed admirable but has little basis in reality.

I know that the work to rule is about reversing the current pay cuts but most ps workers know that won't happen. But its also about sending a message that PS workers pay, terms and conditions of employment will not be slashed without some form of resistance. If the government gave an undertaking not to cut pay again then the union members would regard this once off pay cut in a different light.

[fiannafailure]

.... and begin the abuse of the lowest paid and struggling familes in the sagging economy. The longer this action goes on, the greater alienation the general public will feel from the PS. Think people will be angry at the government for this? Dream on. If anything this will be mana from heaven for FFs poll numbers. Well done

Interesting to see what this action does to already heavily criticised Public Service efficiency statistics. A great many people already believe we are over paying for lack of service. And now they are still paying and getting less? Any government that caved to that would face more wrath than anything the flabby PS could muster up.

I know a few Public Servents who are not happy about their pay cut, but are really fuming at how the PS unions have driven them into a cul-de-sac and made them public enemy number one.

Any negitive effects this action on the economy should be debited off the Public Sector wage bill. That would be a vote winner for which ever party suggests it.

Nail on the head

Its the union leaders who are the bad guys not the workers

[sharper]

Then there will almost definitley be all out strikes next year.

Anything's possible but I expect the next budget to a split between spending cuts and tax increases. That'll still hit PS workers but it'll much harder to argue any sort of disproportionate impact.

I know that the work to rule is about reversing the current pay cuts but most ps workers know that won't happen. But its also about sending a message that PS workers pay, terms and conditions of employment will not be slashed without some form of resistance. If the government gave an undertaking not to cut pay again then the union members would regard this once off pay cut in a different light.

Well again you're basically assuming the union leadership and many of its members are rational. You're assuming what they're asking for is not what they're asking for.

I suggest spending some time reading this forum. There's a disturbingly large number of people who think these cuts are simply part of a conspiracy to take from them what's rightfully theirs. They're certain the government could just as easily raise the needed money via taxes.

I argued what would happened in the budget would happen for many months beforehand and you can check through the archives if you like. Instead the PS unions decided to occupy some sort of fantasy land whereby they could force the government's hand and keep their pay and conditions, they're still living there even now.

[Fir Bolg]

Anything's possible but I expect the next budget to a split between spending cuts and tax increases. That'll still hit PS workers but it'll much harder to argue any sort of disproportionate impact.


Well again you're basically assuming the union leadership and many of its members are rational. You're assuming what they're asking for is not what they're asking for.

I suggest spending some time reading this forum. There's a disturbingly large number of people who think these cuts are simply part of a conspiracy to take from them what's rightfully theirs. They're certain the government could just as easily raise the needed money via taxes.

I argued what would happened in the budget would happen for many months beforehand and you can check through the archives if you like. Instead the PS unions decided to occupy some sort of fantasy land whereby they could force the government's hand and keep their pay and conditions, they're still living there even now.

I've been around here a good few years and am well aware of some peoples view.

[sharper]

I've been around here a good few years and am well aware of some peoples view.

Then you know as well as I do there's a group of people who'd cheer for all-out strike action now to reverse the pay cuts. Given the propensity towards frankly unnecessary industrial action (like the strike last year, seriously what was that for?) I think it's likely the unions will act in a fashion more inclined to satisfy their interests.

The current line, for example, is "no reform". That practically guarantees future pay and/or job cuts. We need reform to avoid those things yet the union leadership seems to think they're some sort of favour from them to the public that relies on their services.

[slumdog1971]

Why not engage in the subsatance of the argument?.. why do you hide behind personal insults?..

It is impossible to have any decent argument with someone who actually thinks that Social Partneship has caused this economic mess.

You deserve nothing but insults if this is the level of your understanding of our current difficulties.

[fiannafailure]

It is impossible to have any decent argument with someone who actually thinks that Social Partneship has caused this economic mess.

You deserve nothing but insults if this is the level of your understanding of our current difficulties.

It alone didn't cause it, but its effect on union leadership is certainly contributing to its solution