Time for Biological father to pay the bill

[Foghorn]

Here you go Hopi. Another article www.amen.ie/Downloads/26017.pdf

It is by Kieran McKeown, Social & Econmic Research Consultant

The legal barriers to lone fathers are already well known and arise both in the Constitution and in law. The
main barrier in the Constitution is that an unmarried father is not part of a family within the legal meaning of
Article 41 of the Constitution nor is he a parent within the meaning of Article 42 of the Constitution; as a result,
he has no personal right to his child which the State is bound to protect under Article 40.3.

And backing up my earlier points about motivation for the way the law is formed -

One of the remarkable features about the debate on giving equal constitutional rights to unmarried mothers and
fathers is the reasons advanced for not giving those rights to all unmarried fathers. As framed by the
Constitution Review Group there are two reasons advanced for not giving equal rights to unmarried fathers.
One reason is that this would include fatherhood resulting from rape, incest, or sperm donership (Constitution
Review Group, 1996, p.326). At one level this is a valid argument since no one would wish parenting rights to
be conferred on a man in such circumstances. But using these exceptional circumstances as a way of excluding
all unmarried fathers from equality with unmarried mothers seems to imply a remarkably negative and
exclusionary attitude to these men. Most conceptions outside marriage do not involve rape, incest, or sperm
donership.

In the realm of law, the main provisions relate to the establishment of paternity and the rights of guardianship.
In both areas, single fathers have no automatic rights.

On the issue of guardianship, the unmarried father may obtain guardianship rights through the consent of the
mother or, failing that, by applying to the District Court. This is clearly discriminatory and reflects again the
negative light in which unmarried fathers are held.

[Foghorn]

it's the law, do you really want it cited again? A mother cannot deny a father access to his children. If she had such power, why bother going to court on the matter? What could the court do?

So, basically you cannot provide one instance to backup your case!

And, why why why why, is everyone else wrong and you are right. I have posted article after article that shows that this is simply not the case.

And why why why, do you only quote part of the law? I have no problem in your quoting the law but only when you do so completely.

[hopi watcher]

Here you go Hopi. Another article www.amen.ie/Downloads/26017.pdf

It is by Kieran McKeown, Social & Econmic Research Consultant



And backing up my earlier points about motivation for the way the law is formed -

You persist with this opinionated stuff while ignoring the simple fact that a mother cannot deny a father access to his children. Explain why a father, married or unmarried, would approach the court seeking an order if the mother had the power to deny that. What could the court do? Why approach the court? All of the stuff that you a raking over to try to get out of hole that you have dug for yourself relates to custody/guardianship NOT ACCESS.

[hopi watcher]

So, basically you cannot provide one instance to backup your case!

And, why why why why, is everyone else wrong and you are right. I have posted article after article that shows that this is simply not the case.

And why why why, do you only quote part of the law? I have no problem in your quoting the law but only when you do so completely.

How hard is it to be so stupid. All the 'stuff' that you post is about a different matter entirely, custody/guardianship not ACCESS

[Foghorn]

How hard is it to be so stupid. All the 'stuff' that you post is about a different matter entirely, custody/guardianship not ACCESS

Same old stuff. Just critique everything I provide but provide nothing yourself.

Your argument is a non-argument. You can't even provide one case to suppor your claim. I have provided tens of references to support mine.

Is there anything (that is actually achieveable) that could be provided you that would prove the point?

[hopi watcher]

Same old stuff. Just critique everything I provide but provide nothing yourself.

Your argument is a non-argument. You can't even provide one case to suppor your claim. I have provided tens of references to support mine.

Is there anything (that is actually achieveable) that could be provided you that would prove the point?

You really have a very bad case of something and you should consider seeking advice. If you cannot expalin why a father would go to court to seek an order, if your contention that a mother can deny him access to his childfren, then you simply have failed to make a point on that issue and clearly you have no clue regarding the process. All the stuff you posted regarding custody/guardianship is correct in that it is the default position that the mother has automatic custody/guardianship while a father has to apply to the courts for these and even on these issues the matter is decided by the courts not the mother. Aside from these points access is entirely different and a father has a right to access which a mother cannot deny.

[Foghorn]

You really have a very bad case of something and you should consider seeking advice. If you cannot expalin why a father would go to court to seek an order, if your contention that a mother can deny him access to his childfren, then you simply have failed to make a point on that issue and clearly you have no clue regarding the process. All the stuff you posted regarding custody/guardianship is correct in that it is the default position that the mother has automatic custody/guardianship while a father has to apply to the courts for these and even on these issues the matter is decided by the courts not the mother. Aside from these points access is entirely different and a father has a right to access which a mother cannot deny.

Great! You see Hopi I thought someone like you who sees themselves as a Leftie and a champion of the underdog would be more sympathetic to the plight of unmarried fathers on the issue of access. Clearly this is not the case and you are happy with the status quo on access. At least on this point we can agree. I too am happy that the status quo on access be maintained.

[hopi watcher]

Great! You see Hopi I thought someone like you who sees themselves as a Leftie and a champion of the underdog would be more sympathetic to the plight of unmarried fathers on the issue of access. Clearly this is not the case and you are happy with the status quo on access. At least on this point we can agree. I too am happy that the status quo on access be maintained.

Who said that I have no sympathy for unmarried fathers? What alternative do you propose with regard to access? Think before you answer.

[Foghorn]

Who said that I have no sympathy for unmarried fathers? What alternative do you propose with regard to access? Think before you answer.

I think the situation is fine as it is! Married people should have more rights!

[HughinBandon]

You really are scrapping the end of the barrell now. My experience, or lack of it. has no bearing wnatever on the facts and the fact in this discsuuin remains that a mother cannt deny a father access to his children.

You claimed to have "years of experience dealing with these matters". Your own words, not mine. I simply asked you to validate that statement so I could assess your understanding of how Family Law is interpreted and administered. You seem unable to validate your claim.

If you had any experience in dealing with Family Law you would know that although legally a mother cannot deny access to a father the reality is, reality as in the real world, that the situation occurs on almost epidemic proportions. If you had a clue what you were talking about, or any experience in dealing with Family Law, you would know this.

Despite this, and to the best of my knowledge, no mother has ever been prosecuted for denying a father access to his child. How can this be if it is unlawful for a mother to do this? Why has no mother ever faced prosecution?????

In your experience.