The fall of capitalism: Quarter of US children went hungry last year

[johnfás-inabstentia]

1. Healthy food is not necessarily cheap - though it is cheaper than some people think.

2. Unhealthy food is incredibly cheap.

3. Education is key, many people from poorer backgrounds have not had the opportunity for food education which is vital to raising their health prospects. Parents need to be educated about how best to feed growing kids (and themselves) and kids need to be educated about what is good for them. In most cases this is left to the Family Doctor who has enough to be getting on with and encounters the problem when much of the damage both to health and attitude has already occurred.

For all the moaning about America, which is a dispicable society at a macro level, there are lots of community projects trying to overcome food poverty, particularly in regard to education. I know of an inner city project in the States sponsored by local business where kids are given a bag of fruit and healthy snacks every weekend, they call them boomerang bags because they bring the bag back each week and it gets refilled with healthy food.

[eyeswideopen]

1. Healthy food is not necessarily cheap - though it is cheaper than some people think.

2. Unhealthy food is incredibly cheap.

3. Education is key, many people from poorer backgrounds have not had the opportunity for food education which is vital to raising their health prospects. Parents need to be educated about how best to feed growing kids and kids need to be educated about what is good for them.

For all the moaning about America, which is a dispicable society at a macro level, there are lots of community projects trying to overcome food poverty, particularly in regard to education. I know of an inner city project in the States sponsored by local business where kids are given a bag of fruit and healthy snacks every weekend, they call them boomerang bags because they bring the bag back each week and it gets refilled with healthy food.

There is no need to rely on guesswork on this. There are a large number of studies that show that it is not lack of education, it is lack of money, that leads to poor nutrition. It is adding insult to injury to imply that people don't know that meat and vegetables are better for you than sliced pan. Studies also show that a high carbohydrate diet is the only way that people on low incomes can survive. I posted a link to some basic information on this two posts back.

Do you seriously think that charity has the capacity of solving this ? The main thing it does is helps to perpetuate the situation and makes the donors feel good.

Its an issue of distribution: how much hunger do you think there is in Sweden ?

[johnfás-inabstentia]

1. Did I say that charity has the capacity to solve it?
No I did not, I simply said that it is happening and the manner in which it is approached provides useful models for how to challenge the problem on a macro and institutional level.

2. Provide details of studies which show that education is not an issue.

You're great at putting words that were not said into the mouths of people, cactus flower. I am more than aware that many people struggle on high carbohydrate diets. I don't see anywhere that I have disputed that, you raise it as a strawman because you simply look for arguments.

Here are the 2007 findings of the Food Standards Agency of Northern Ireland's report on Homelessness:

The research highlighted that the key barriers to healthy eating were:

* financial situation - the results of the research clearly showed that the financial situation of those interviewed impacted on their diet
* education - although all of the participants indicated that they could cook and had access to food preparation and storage facilities, it was evident from the results of the FFQ and from conversations with those working with hostel residents, that even though many perceived themselves to have good cooking skills, this may not actually be the case
* lack of appetite - reasons for this were given as depression, stress, alcohol and medication
* other issues - including image (particularly among young girls), peer pressure, and the view that food is not always seen as a priority

Here are the findings of a report on food poverty by the Institute of Public Health in Ireland:

Financial access.
Many low income households find it difficult to afford a healthy diet. A shortage of money also has a direct effect on physical access to food.
*

Physical access.
Many low income households find it difficult to access affordable healthy food. For example, edge-of-town supermarkets combined with poor transport facilities result in people having to shop in higher priced local shops where there may be less choice of reasonably priced healthy food.
*

Access to information.
Access to knowledge about what we eat has been affected by a dramatic change in the way food is supplied. It can be challenging for households, particularly those on a low income, to understand the nutritional value on food packaging and to be aware of key nutritional and food safety messages.

This is also cited by the Combat Poverty Agency of Ireland who recognise the psychosocial factors of economically disadvantaged groups as contributing to food poverty in tandem with an inability to fund and access healthier food:

Living in poverty and social disadvantage imposes constraints on food consumption in three main ways.

* First, it affects food affordability through the choice and quantity of food than can be bought and the share of the household budget that is allocated to food
* Second, it impacts on access to food through the retail options available and the capacity to shop in terms of transport and physical ability. The availability of storage and cooking facilities is a further constraint on what foods can be accessed
* Third, psychosocial factors determine food choice among socially disadvantaged groups. Personal skills and knowledge, social pressure and cultural norms interact with structural and economic constraints to produce a complex constellation of factors contributing to food poverty

I think you will find that education is an important issue, though it is not the only issue. Of course I didn't say it was the only issue, you just implied that I said it was. My post clearly recognised the financial barriers to a good diet.

[toughbutfair]

Poor people are obviously more likely to be stupid - why do you think they are poor in the first place?

They then eat food that is bad for you, doesn't provide the body or the brain with the vitamins it requires so they stay stupid, and due to genetics their children are likely to be a bit thick too.

That is life - many are just too lazy to cook a proper meal too.

[eyeswideopen]

[quote]

1. Did I say that charity has the capacity to solve it?
No I did not, I simply said that it is happening and the manner in which it is approached provides useful models for how to challenge the problem on a macro and institutional level.

So, do you think that charity has the capacity to solve the linked problem of hunger and poverty?

2. Provide details of studies which show that education is not an issue.

This study shows that childrens nutrition improves at specifically when money is more available - when welfare payment comes through, for example. It also shows that mothers deprive themselves so they can feed their children, so there must be a lot of hungry women in America.
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/168/6/686.pdf

You're great at putting words that were not said into the mouths of people, cactus flower. I am more than aware that many people struggle on high carbohydrate diets. I don't see anywhere that I have disputed that, you raise it as a strawman because you simply look for arguments.

Which words were put into your mouth ? I disputed that poor nutrition was a problem of education.

Here are the 2007 findings of the Food Standards Agency of Northern Ireland's report on Homelessness:

Here are the findings of a report on food poverty by the Institute of Public Health in Ireland

:

Those are useful links, but your quotes don't substantiate that education is a material issue. This is the strongest statement and it is qualified, and seems to be based in part on the subjective and possibly self justifying or ill-informed views of hostel staff.

it was evident from the results of the FFQ and from conversations with those working with hostel residents, that even though many perceived themselves to have good cooking skills, this may not actually be the case

I think you will find that education is an important issue, though it is not the only issue. Of course I didn't say it was the only issue, you just implied that I said it was. My post clearly recognised the financial barriers to a good diet.

The financial barrier is primary. If someone's income is too low, they simply have no alternative to a high carb diet - calorie for calorie its cheaper. Fruit and veg and meat are as I showed more costly per calorie.

My motivation for disputing your original post is the same as it has been all the times I've posted to counteract the myth that poor people could eat well if only they were better educated. It obscures the real issue and makes a solution less likely.

You don't seem to have had any more luck in getting your ID back than I have.

[Ifor Bach]

Check this out. You might be surprised.


What Does 200 Calories Cost? The Economics of Obesity My Money Blog

Go to just about any bloody market, and buy stuff such as carrots, potatoes, cabbages, lentils and so on.

It's cheap I'm telling ya.

[Ifor Bach]

Cheap eats:

The 20 Healthiest Foods for Under $1 - DivineCaroline

[johnfás-inabstentia]

Go to just about any bloody market, and buy stuff such as carrots, potatoes, cabbages, lentils and so on.

It's cheap I'm telling ya.

Where do you think the nearest food market is for someone who lives in, for instance, inner city Detroit? There isn't one.

Should be noted that in inner city Dublin there are such markets though I have on idea whether they are prepared to sell in small amounts to consumers and you must also take into account the cost involved in getting into the markets and getting food home again etc.

[Ifor Bach]

Where do you think the nearest food market is for someone who lives in, for instance, inner city Detroit? There isn't one.

Should be noted that in inner city Dublin there are such markets though I have on idea whether they are prepared to sell in small amounts to consumers and you must also take into account the cost involved in getting into the markets and getting food home again etc.

I'm not an expert on inner-city Detroit, but I would be amazed if there was not cheap and nutritious food available even there, if anyone was to take the trouble to look for it.

Are you telling me you can't buy stuff like carrots, potatoes and cabbages in Detroit?

[Ifor Bach]

And if cheap and nutritious food isn't available in Detroit, that would be through lack of demand - the American poor prefer not to eat healthy food.