Daft: Rents at lowest level in ten years

[CookieMonster]

This is a site for debate not a place for posting pictures of cartoon charachters which constitute laughs for sub teenagers.

I can see already anybody who wants to use the site should bow to your superior knowledge and wanten patronising to suit the story as you see fit. Brilliant.

You call this debate, do you?

Ronan Lyons on newstalk this morning explaining how this came about...FFS, you don't need to be an "economist" Ronan to see that the bin is full awash with empty property. A gold star for spending 3 mins on air this morning stating the bloody obvious.

[cozzy121]

Good!
The country should have seen this coming down the line years ago, 2006 to be precise......
A warning from deserted ghost estates | David McWilliams

[Addendum]

You call this debate, do you?

Oh FFS. Grow up. I made a comment get over it, by its very nature its debate as it was in reply to a subject.

[CookieMonster]

Oh FFS. Grow up. I made a comment get over it, by its very nature its debate as it was in reply to a subject.

And what were you debating? Certainly not the topic of the thread or the post which you replied to.

[MookieBaylock]

This is extremely interesting. For myriad reasons. I am going to use West Berlin as an example for what may happen to Ireland.

In the 1980's rents and purchase prices in West Berlin were higher than in Ireland, even in 2007, adjusted for inflation. This was largely because West Berlin was a very highly subsidised "city state" and was more prosperous in terms of incomes than most of Germany, let alone Europe.

Twenty years ago, the wall comes down. Many East Berliners migrate west and many west berliners move into cheaper rents in the east where their purchasing power goes further.

Then it's discovered that the commies had built over supply in the east so there were entire blocks in places like Marzahn and Koppenick empty. After a brief false boom in the early 90's rents in the east collapsed and prices and the west soon followed.

The reason for it was that Berlin had only circa 3 million people and units to supply about 5 million.

Now, with Germany, France and the USA technically out of recession and whatever their faults likely to offer more opportunities in coming years than Ireland we are likely to see an outflow of people. It would already have happened but for the fact the UK is an even bigger basket case than us so the natural "get-out" door has been closed for now.

Then we have the migrants. Projections have been that migrants would continue to come in while our birth rate remained high and Irish people would not leave.

Only 2 of those 3 things on which Fianna Fail and the CFI/Banks bet on our future is happening - the birth rate. Irish people are starting to leave again and the trickle is becoming a flow. The foreign people are returning home and new arrivals are scarce.

In 2011, Germany will open its labour market to Poles and their slavic brothers and that country will doubtless prove more attractive than Ireland from that time on.

Bascially, Ireland is in a hole. NAMA will not work, in fact it would compound matters.

The only solution is to a variation on Ray McSharry's statement at the weekend.

Buy 50,000 houses as stock for future use as council housing at say 150k each. End all rent allowance subsidies to private landlords and use the council houses to provide homes for the unemployed and needy.

This will effectively collapse the property market and all Irish banks except Irish Permanent.

Then establish a new state bank to take over the deposit accounts of the banks which have gone to the wall and invite some large foreign players such as Deutsche Bank and Credit Lyon into the country to provide competition.

"Shock therapy" it was once called and its the only way out of this mess.

[HarshBuzz]

This is extremely interesting. For myriad reasons. I am going to use West Berlin as an example for what may happen to Ireland.

In the 1980's rents and purchase prices in West Berlin were higher than in Ireland, even in 2007, adjusted for inflation. This was largely because West Berlin was a very highly subsidised "city state" and was more prosperous in terms of incomes than most of Germany, let alone Europe.

Twenty years ago, the wall comes down. Many East Berliners migrate west and many west berliners move into cheaper rents in the east where their purchasing power goes further.

Then it's discovered that the commies had built over supply in the east so there were entire blocks in places like Marzahn and Koppenick empty. After a brief false boom in the early 90's rents in the east collapsed and prices and the west soon followed.

The reason for it was that Berlin had only circa 3 million people and units to supply about 5 million.

Now, with Germany, France and the USA technically out of recession and whatever their faults likely to offer more opportunities in coming years than Ireland we are likely to see an outflow of people. It would already have happened but for the fact the UK is an even bigger basket case than us so the natural "get-out" door has been closed for now.

Then we have the migrants. Projections have been that migrants would continue to come in while our birth rate remained high and Irish people would not leave.

Only 2 of those 3 things on which Fianna Fail and the CFI/Banks bet on our future is happening - the birth rate. Irish people are starting to leave again and the trickle is becoming a flow. The foreign people are returning home and new arrivals are scarce.

In 2011, Germany will open its labour market to Poles and their slavic brothers and that country will doubtless prove more attractive than Ireland from that time on.

Bascially, Ireland is in a hole. NAMA will not work, in fact it would compound matters.

The only solution is to a variation on Ray McSharry's statement at the weekend.

Buy 50,000 houses as stock for future use as council housing at say 150k each. End all rent allowance subsidies to private landlords and use the council houses to provide homes for the unemployed and needy.

This will effectively collapse the property market and all Irish banks except Irish Permanent.

Then establish a new state bank to take over the deposit accounts of the banks which have gone to the wall and invite some large foreign players such as Deutsche Bank and Credit Lyon into the country to provide competition.

"Shock therapy" it was once called and its the only way out of this mess.

that's a really good post Mookie

sadly, our political establishment cannot conceive of any solution that does not include maintenance of the status quo

[maxthedog]

This is extremely interesting. For myriad reasons. I am going to use West Berlin as an example for what may happen to Ireland.

In the 1980's rents and purchase prices in West Berlin were higher than in Ireland, even in 2007, adjusted for inflation. This was largely because West Berlin was a very highly subsidised "city state" and was more prosperous in terms of incomes than most of Germany, let alone Europe.

Twenty years ago, the wall comes down. Many East Berliners migrate west and many west berliners move into cheaper rents in the east where their purchasing power goes further.

Then it's discovered that the commies had built over supply in the east so there were entire blocks in places like Marzahn and Koppenick empty. After a brief false boom in the early 90's rents in the east collapsed and prices and the west soon followed.

The reason for it was that Berlin had only circa 3 million people and units to supply about 5 million.

Now, with Germany, France and the USA technically out of recession and whatever their faults likely to offer more opportunities in coming years than Ireland we are likely to see an outflow of people. It would already have happened but for the fact the UK is an even bigger basket case than us so the natural "get-out" door has been closed for now.

Then we have the migrants. Projections have been that migrants would continue to come in while our birth rate remained high and Irish people would not leave.

Only 2 of those 3 things on which Fianna Fail and the CFI/Banks bet on our future is happening - the birth rate. Irish people are starting to leave again and the trickle is becoming a flow. The foreign people are returning home and new arrivals are scarce.

In 2011, Germany will open its labour market to Poles and their slavic brothers and that country will doubtless prove more attractive than Ireland from that time on.

Bascially, Ireland is in a hole. NAMA will not work, in fact it would compound matters.

The only solution is to a variation on Ray McSharry's statement at the weekend.

Buy 50,000 houses as stock for future use as council housing at say 150k each. End all rent allowance subsidies to private landlords and use the council houses to provide homes for the unemployed and needy.

This will effectively collapse the property market and all Irish banks except Irish Permanent.

Then establish a new state bank to take over the deposit accounts of the banks which have gone to the wall and invite some large foreign players such as Deutsche Bank and Credit Lyon into the country to provide competition.

"Shock therapy" it was once called and its the only way out of this mess.

Could we use another shock tactic and bulldoze 100,000 units into dust.

While you would be adverse to see brand new houses reduced to rubble. It would solve over supply problems and create a starting point for the building industry into the future.

The country will have to grapple with over-supply first and foremost.

Giving away free houses for the next 10 years would kill of any work ethic left in ireland.

[MookieBaylock]

Could we use another shock tactic and bulldoze 100,000 units into dust.

While you would be adverse to see brand new houses reduced to rubble. It would solve over supply problems and create a starting point for the building industry into the future.

The country will have to grapple with over-supply first and foremost.

Giving away free houses for the next 10 years would kill of any work ethic left in ireland.

It seems the only solution in fairness.. It is better than subsidising private speculators with our tax money.

[Harmonica]

With banks giving interest payment 'holidays' there is no incentive for Developers to sell their existing new home stock. They will ride it out hoping prices increase until the banks or NAMA force them to repay their debts.

[blacbloc2]

There ought to be a public information campaign letting landlords and 'squatters' (owners of properties who are leaving them idle in the vague hope that the the property market will recover) know that it is far better for the value of their property to have them occupied, even at a low rent than to leave them idle.

Houses that are left empty can decay through dampness vandalism and the effects of the irish climate very quickly. Houses and apartments that are in developments with low occupancy become blackspots for antisocial behaviour and property values suffer.

People refusing to rent out houses for rents that don't cover their mortgage are engaging in a false economy as the long term damage to their investment could be prevented by accepting good tenants at lower market rates.

Auctioneers and property management agencies are only aggravating things. Tenants are much better off to avoid them - as are landlords too - they only take a cut for doing what landlords and tenants can do themselves. Advertise in local papers, shop windows, public notice boards etc.