Govt to tax the lower paid and cut dole

[cyberianpan]

Looks like the budgetary adjustment will be to tax the lower paid more, cut dole, and cut PS pay (especially the lower paid)

Personally I'm happy with this adjustment as it is both necessary and fair.... however is it politically possible ?

Sunday Times - Lower income earners to start paying tax
Brian Lenihan is planning to widen the tax brackets to bring more lower income earners into the tax net, in conjunction with cutting the rate of social welfare payments to the unemployed. Senior government sources have confirmed that both measures are being seriously considered by the finance minister as part of December’s budget.
...
Currently, anyone earning €18,300 a year has enough personal tax credits to avoid paying any tax. If Lenihan brings lower earners into the tax bracket, however, he will have to cut dole payments to ensure the incentive to work isn’t reduced. An analysis last week by Suzanne Kelly, a barrister specialising in taxation, highlighted the difficulty of this balancing act. Currently, a married couple with two children are €4,200 better off on social welfare than if one partner is working for €35,000 a year

Given that the median earner only pays 4% tax rate this is fair, for analysis of Irish taxation see

Ronan Lyons- Tax quiz and Are Irish workers undertaxed?

cYp

[Captain Sensible]

Its difficult . As a dolie myself , I am happy to take a cut . Trouble is , im used to it , i can adapt . the problem will be with new 'dolies ' People who worked their asses off . Now they are being treated like dirt , imo .

[Congalltee]

Cutting the tax credits of all brings in a good and direct return. The PAYE allowance should also be hacked - especially for public servants. While the 700,000 on non-dole social welfare should not be cut, the dole could easily be halfed without too much repercussions (those on it for years need am incentive, those new to it are taking such a massive drop anyway that they cannot live on 204 so it makes no odds). The children's allowance needs to be slashed, taxed or payable in voucher form only.

[Bi ciuin]

I challenge any wealthy person to live on the dole for 1 month.

In the UK a Tory MP tried it and couldnt do it.

Here is the link

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Your views: Portillo as a single mum


And taxing those on minimum wage more is just pathetic.

What will happen when the ECB raise interest rates next year? Those on the basic wage will not be able to cope with any cuts and how will they pay all the extra cost in living around the corner.

Meanwhile Nama rolls on, the rich continue to use their tax loop holes and the difference between rich and poor grows.

Anyone talking about TD cuts? Anyone talking about wealthy pensions being hit?

Why are we hitting the poorest people in society and yet FF back down on wealthy pensioners not handing back their medical cards.

A revolution is long overdue.


Meanwhile we continue to let in thousands of immigrants into the country taking jobs the Irish could do.



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[seabhcan]

I think the fairest thing would be to cut Unemployment assistance, but not the Unemployment benefit.

Benefit and assistance are currently the same amount, but you get Benefit for 12 months (if you have been working for 2 years) and then get switched to assistance, which is means tested in theory.

Benefit should remain the same to allow people to adjust to the lower income, and because they have earned this benefit through their prsi payments.

Assistance could be cut to 150 a week for those with children, and say 120 for single people.

[neutral_lurker]

I challenge any wealthy person to live on the dole for 1 month.

In the UK a Tory MP tried it and couldnt do it.

Here is the link

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Your views: Portillo as a single mum


And taking those on minimum wage more is just pathetic.

What will happen when the ECB raise interest rates next year? Those on the basic wage will not be able to cope with any cuts and pay all the extra cost in living around the corner.

Meanwhile Nama rolls on, the rich continue to use their tax loop holes and the difference between rich and poor grows.

Anyone talking about TD cuts? Anyone talking about wealthy pensions being hit?

Why are we hitting the poorest people in society and yet FF back down on welathy pensioners not handing back their medical cards.

A revolution is long overdue.


Meanwhile we continue to let in thousands of immigrants into the country taking jobs the Irish could do.



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A fantastic post BC it really is outrageous how this country is running and anyone on here who isnt in the super rich category shouldn't be allowing this to happen.We who are more articulate need to stand up for the vulnerable in society.I'm not against cutting the dole but an equitable balance needs to be achieved so that those who contributed to the crisis pay more.I agree with the post below also re unemployment benefit and assistance also.

[Bi ciuin]

Its all well saying there should be incentives to get the people on the dole back to work, but let me spell it out for you.


THERE ARE NO JOBS.

Are for the jobs that are there you are competing with hundreds of others, and countless of immigrants who would be more than happy to work for peanuts.

Peanuts could mean living costs taken out of their wage packet.

A local garage near me employs a young Brazillian lad on minimum wage. He is more of a dogsbody than anything else.

However the garage owner deducts costs from his wage packet for living and accomodation leaving him with around €4.00 per hour.

ALL LEGAL.

Now how can an Irish Man/Woman compete with that?





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[Bi ciuin]

I can only hope that there are many people who have been duped over the recent Lisbon vote.

We were promised Jobs, we were promised recovery. And yet the country continues to sink further into the depths of disaster.

The Irish people seem to be the band on the Titanic, bravely watching the ship sink whilst allowing life boats to sail off half full, Some selfish souls cheat their way into the life boats caring not for their fellow passengers and yet the band watching all this play their last tune.

Some hear promises that another ship is on its way to save us all. But yet as the hour draws closer the promises of another boat appear to have been a false promise and full of lies. When questioned where this boat is the officers deny that they ever mentioned this boat and ignore all those who witnissed them saying it.

Finally the ship sinks and only those lucky few who took the lifeboats survive.

But the band were brave and they did play well.








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[euroboy]

Everyone should made a contribution to the general tax system, t was a long time coming, but sense prevailed.

If I may suggest the following:

PAYE

Start charging income tax at the standard rate at income levels of either 8k or 10k euro.

Widen the standard rate band to an upper limit of 50k, and introduce a third rate at 100k, say 50%.

PRSI

Remove the ceiling on employee contributions

Raise the employee contribution from 4% to 6% FOR EVERYONE(no exemption of 6604 euro/127euro a wk.............the low paid also become unempolyed and should contribute towards future dole payments)

Health/Income levies

ABOLISH, or if not, at least remove the OVERLY generous threshold of 500 euro a week one needs to earn BEFORE they pay for towards the health levy. In fact, i view this as unfair because if someone earns 500 euro a week, not only are they paying for a health levy they DO NOT receive a medicial card and thus do not receive free healthcare (doctors are private and drugs cost up to 100 euro a month). The income levy, should be added to the general income tax rates.

This would simply the tax administration but also restructure the tax base to incorporate more into the system.

Reliefs:

Apply all at a standard rate or slighly raised.

[Keith-M]

I think the fairest thing would be to cut Unemployment assistance, but not the Unemployment benefit.

Benefit and assistance are currently the same amount, but you get Benefit for 12 months (if you have been working for 2 years) and then get switched to assistance, which is means tested in theory.

Benefit should remain the same to allow people to adjust to the lower income, and because they have earned this benefit through their prsi payments.

Assistance could be cut to 150 a week for those with children, and say 120 for single people.

I would totally agree with that. I would however go one step further. For people who have been on Unemployment Assistance for more than five years, I would not make any payment in cash, but in vouchers that could be used against such things as clothing and food but not against alcohol or cigarettes. These are people who chose not to work when there were jobs a plenty and people from all over Europe were flocking to this country. While I'm prepared to make sure they have the basics (maybe topped up by charities), I don't think they should ask the taxpayers to fund luxury items.

We need to bring more people at the lower end into the tax net, but we need there to be an incentive to work, so the gap between minimum wage and what one can get from welfare should be quite big.