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Thread: Ireland is sliding into depression -conference told

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    Politics.ie Member Trmr09's Avatar
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    Ireland is sliding into depression -conference told

    Ireland is sliding into depression -conference told - The Irish Times - Sat, Oct 10, 2009

    Ireland is sliding into depression and small pockets of economic growth at this stage are "meaningless", it was said at an economic conference in Dublin City University today.

    Alternative approaches to economic thinking must be used to solve problems in the Irish economy and society, according to speakers at the conference, which was organised by the thinktank TASC.

    Terrence McDonough, a professor at NUI Galway's Department of Economics, said mainstream economics was "broken" and disconnected from the real world, with economists hiding behind massaged mathematical models that claimed to tell the future but failed to predict or prevent the current crisis.

    "The notion of a recovery from recession is meaningless in this context... Small amounts of growth at the bottom of the recession mean nothing," he said.

    By standard measures of economic growth, the US emerged from the Great Depression in 1933, he added. However, conditions remained extremely difficult for people throughout the decade.

    The glorification of individual consumption in Ireland led to policy mistakes such as a low-tax regime that in turn created the fiscal crisis and allowed the banking sector to "hold the country to ransom", Prof McDonough said.

    Opening the event, TASC director Paula Clancy called for the establishment of a National Recovery Forum to debate how the Irish economy could achieve what she termed "recovery with equality".

    Also speaking at the conference in DCU's Business School, Paul Sweeney, economic adviser to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (Ictu), called for stricter corporate governance rules to be imposed, including protection for whistleblowers, mandatory codes of behaviour and a higher level of financial disclosure for companies.

    "There are no radical new corporate governance laws. It isn't even being debated," Mr Sweeney said. The principles of the free market were no longer being applied to the very banks that espoused those principles, he pointed out.

    "If certain companies are not allowed to fail by Governments, then company law must be re-written."

    Meanwhile, Dr John Barry, assistant director of the Institute for a Sustainable World at Queen's University Belfast, called on governments to "stop treating the world like it's a business that's going into liquidation."

    It should not have taken a recession in order for Ireland to reduce its carbon emissions, he said.

    Dr Barry welcomed a report published earlier this week by NESC that called for notions of wellbeing to be taken into account alongside traditional measures of economic growth such as Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which he said masked serious problems. Citing studies indicating that a person's quality of life does not increase above a certain level of wealth, Dr Barry described economic growth as having the potential to be "cancerous".






    Thanks Biffo!
    Last edited by Trmr09; 10th October 2009 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Added pictures.

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    "stop treating the world like it's a business that's going into liquidation."
    Great quote.

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    So much for "yes for jobs". The biggest conjob ever perpetrated on the Irish people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    So much for "yes for jobs". The biggest conjob ever perpetrated on the Irish people.
    im going to a "leaving do" tonight in my local parish hall for 2 families emigrating to New Zealand. is this a sign of things to come?
    will be a return to emigration parties again?

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    Politics.ie Regular Interista's Avatar
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    will be a return to emigration parties again?
    But where would they go this time around?

    Granted, few developed economies are in quite as dire straits as Ireland is, but unemployment is rising just about everywhere.

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    Politics.ie Regular Pauli's Avatar
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    Only Biffo? Spread the love, for God's sake! A big thanks too to B. Ahern, M. Harney and C. Mc Creevy for the role their bullsh1t economics had in the train wreck.
    Fianna Fail - The Loss of Sovereignty Party.

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    today got up early really early still no sign of the jobs

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriel27 View Post
    im going to a "leaving do" tonight in my local parish hall for 2 families emigrating to New Zealand. is this a sign of things to come?
    will be a return to emigration parties again?
    Well the latest CSO figures indicate that while we have net-emigration, we don't among Irish nationals where Irish immigration/emigration cancel each other out exactly at 18,400. The social-welfare system should keep native Irish emigration below the 1980's. Serious cuts could change that, however. The foreign-nationals are often not entitled to welfare so some of them are leaving.

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    Politics.ie Member JollyRedGiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    So much for "yes for jobs". The biggest conjob ever perpetrated on the Irish people.
    I had a quick look through the RTE news archive

    in the four weeks before the Lisbon Treaty the following job loss announcements were covered on RTE

    1/10/2009 INN - 15
    1/10/2009 ABB - 67
    21/9/2009 Budget Travel - 95
    17/9/2009 Esker Bus - 40
    17/9/2009 John Gannon & Son's - 18
    17/9/2009 Loughneane Concrete - 9
    16/9/2009 Slatterys Travel - 10
    11/9/2009 Johnston Press - 46
    8/9/2009 Morris's DIY - 18
    Total - 318


    In the one week after the Referendum we had the following -

    4/10/2009 Ray Treacy Travel - 10
    6/10/2009 Aer Lingus - 650
    6/10/2009 Moffat Engineering - 60
    7/10/2009 GE Money - 50
    7/10/2009 Technotree - 80
    7/10/2009 Condron Concrete - 30
    7/10/2009 O'Briens - 800
    8/10/2009 Linen Supply - 200
    Total - 1880

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    Politics.ie Regular wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JollyRedGiant View Post
    I had a quick look through the RTE news archive

    in the four weeks before the Lisbon Treaty the following job loss announcements were covered on RTE

    1/10/2009 INN - 15
    1/10/2009 ABB - 67
    21/9/2009 Budget Travel - 95
    17/9/2009 Esker Bus - 40
    17/9/2009 John Gannon & Son's - 18
    17/9/2009 Loughneane Concrete - 9
    16/9/2009 Slatterys Travel - 10
    11/9/2009 Johnston Press - 46
    8/9/2009 Morris's DIY - 18
    Total - 318


    In the one week after the Referendum we had the following -

    4/10/2009 Ray Treacy Travel - 10
    6/10/2009 Aer Lingus - 650
    6/10/2009 Moffat Engineering - 60
    7/10/2009 GE Money - 50
    7/10/2009 Technotree - 80
    7/10/2009 Condron Concrete - 30
    7/10/2009 O'Briens - 800
    8/10/2009 Linen Supply - 200
    Total - 1880
    Interesting use of figures to back a preconceived theory. Look a bit closer at the post Lisbon announcements. Aer Lingus, Linen Supply, O'Briens have been flagged for months, take them out and figures are similar. No consolation to anyone involved but just because events happen at the same time doesn't mean they are connected.
    If engineers were wrong as often as economists, would anyone fly aeroplanes?

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