The €22bn hole

[sharper]

The €22 billion includes a net €9.2 billion being spent on capital projects. Clearly, this cannot be regarded as a daily expense.

It depends on the specific project. You can't just halt construction anymore than you can close hospitals or schools. You'd really have to look at it project by project

In relation to the NPRF, it is truely incredible at a time of crisis that we are borrowing money (and paying interest on it), and then using that money to gamble unsuccessfully on the world markets in the hope of having a good return in 16 years time.

It's more likely because we already dumped it into the banks and we want more money set aside to also dump into the banks. It's a lot easier to sell it as "Oh we're just putting aside some money for pensions" and then give it to a bank than to set it aside for banks.

[anchor]

It's more likely because we already dumped it into the banks and we want more money set aside to also dump into the banks. It's a lot easier to sell it as "Oh we're just putting aside some money for pensions" and then give it to a bank than to set it aside for banks.

Well that's precisely what's happened. The €7 billion in total given to AIB and Bank of Ireland is made up of €4 billion from current NPRF reserves, plus €3 billion drawn down from our future contributions to the NPRF in 2010 and 2011.

[sparkey321]

Are you now refuting the OECD report? Is there any end to your stupidity?

When someone else refutes a report they are stupid but when you refute a report you have insight ?

[WTTR]

A yearly levy of 0.147% (i.e. less than a fifth of one per cent) on the GDP of the EU will bring in the required €22billion.

This can be justified because the funding for wage and salary increases in the CS and massive profits in the private sector came from over €60billion Securitisation of mortgage products. The legislation that allowed the International Financial Buccaneers (IFB) rip-off the Irish was initially passed as a result of IFSC lobbying of Irish MEPs, DOF, The Financial Regulator to change restrictions in the Capital Requirements Directive in the EU, and merrily adopted by fooled up to the earlobes TDs in Leinster House. All this was done with the carrot of increased employment in the IFSC. All the above collaborated together to represent an “Irish position” to getting the restrictions lifted.

Who was missing from the so-called “Irish position”? The poor auld youthful mortgage holder, who placed his full faith in the integrity of politicians and bankers, was left to carry the baby! Who are these mortgage holders, but those who had safe jobs i.e. Civil Servants etc. Cut the salaries of the CS, then the banks don’t get mortgages paid; but the Asset Covered Securities (another word for Securitisation) owned by Pension Funds from the Aging EU have to be paid. These are indirectly covered by the Government Guarantee. So, knock 10% of CS salaries; this will not be saved, but will have to be provided for by the rest of us in increased taxation to further bail out the banks.

The International Bankers, our MEPs, DOF and Irish politicians, and the EU created the problem. Let them bloody solve it? The Irish people can’t. We could solve it if we had better politicians with some foresight e.g. exploited our hydrocarbons for the benefit of the whole community. But, I have always doubted that our politicians could have been so dim-witted to let this massive resource so easily go; I think that their arms must have been twisted by the EU. So the Irish problem is an EU problem, let them boldly solve it, or it is goodbye to the Euro and the great European dream!

Remember if you own the bank a $100, it is your problem; if you owe them $1billion, it is theirs!

Want to hear more! Go to www.johnfhiggins.eu

[sparkey321]

Stop telling lies. I have repeatedly advocated that the burdened be fairly shared with those most vulnerable protected and those that can, carrying more of the burden. Your little stories are charming but childish.
Every analysis does not show that our public sector is 'too expmnssive for out ecomony' In fact, the most recent report concluded the reverse is the case, we have one of the leanest Public Sectors in Europe.

You calling people on telling lies ? That's rich.

What you have repeatedly advocated is that under no circumstances should anyone be fired or laid off. It is never the employees fault and always the managers.

You have also repeatedly advocated that public sector workers terms and conditions should be protected. You have done so for many sectors (especially nurses) and indeed in same cases even called for pay increases.......

Those are the only two absolutes you have ever committed to on this site.

You talk allot of generalities about fairness and equality but have never once outlined your idea of how it should work and the only solution you have ever mentioned to the 22 billion hole is more generalities about progressive taxation but again without outlining even in the broadest detail of how it would work.

So no. Sharper is not telling lies. He is stating the truth based on what you have actually committed to.

[Jock_the_Waster]

A yearly levy of 0.147% (i.e. less than a fifth of one per cent) on the GDP of the EU will bring in the required €22billion.

Are you for real?

What makes you think that you can 'tax' EU GDP in order to cover Irish current expenditure?

The CS/PS pay needs to be cut by 25% that will be the first step back to reality for this deluded country

[HarshBuzz]

The International Bankers, our MEPs, DOF and Irish politicians, and the EU created the problem.

international bankers and the EU caused a property bubble in Ireland

the dirty rats

[WTTR]

international bankers and the EU caused a property bubble in Ireland

the dirty rats

Hi HarshBuzz! I give you the following quotes:

"Nevertheless, the business sector and, indirectly, Irish mortgage borrowers have had access to global finance. There has been a rapid recent growth in foreign borrowing by banks to finance their mortgage lending. In the past few years, banks borrowing from abroad to lend to Irish residents has soared from 10 per cent to 41 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP), according to Dr Honohan's paper.

In the past, financial markets served a watchdog role and penalised over-borrowing with high interest rates. But now that the Republic is in the euro zone, Dr Honohan notes that the watchdog is muzzled and even high rates of borrowing can proceed without any warning from the markets."

Information for Ireland or abroad, travel, entertainment listings, sports news, games, puzzles, recipes, TV listings and more - Ireland.com

Also
"Cowen approves covered bonds Bill

The Minister for Finance Brian Cowen has approved the publication of a Bill that will amend the legislation relating to the covered bonds market.

Covered bonds provide a very competitive source of funding for mortgage lending by financial institutions, Mr Cowen said, and the amendments would help maintain the competitiveness of Irish banks engaged in covered bond issuance."

Information for Ireland or abroad, travel, entertainment listings, sports news, games, puzzles, recipes, TV listings and more - Ireland.com

Also

"Asset covered securities
The value of this has been evidenced at both domestic and international levels. For example, the ACS legislation will shortly be updated by Government following a detailed review process involving all stakeholders. At European level, the new European Capital Requirements Directive comes into force on 1 January 2007. The initial draft of the Directive in 2004 was prejudicial to the business models of many Irish and European banking institutions, including DEPFA. An extensive communication process was launched by Ireland at European level involving DEPFA and other industry participants, the Department of Finance, the Financial Regulator, Irish MEPs, Irish Permanent Representatives to Europe and co-ordinated by Irish Banking Federation."
Finance-Magazine.com - The Irish experience of an international bank - Depfa€s Irish story

[WTTR]

Sorry the Irish Times obviously nolonger allow free access to the pages that I linked the quotes to!

[WTTR]

Are you for real?

What makes you think that you can 'tax' EU GDP in order to cover Irish current expenditure?

The CS/PS pay needs to be cut by 25% that will be the first step back to reality for this deluded country

Okay, I was just trying to indicate how small we are in relation to the overall EU. You could lay €100 tax on every worker in the EU and it will have the same result.

The message I am trying to get across is that we are now realising that membership of the EU only benefited us, because we had the proverbial palm of the hand continually stretch out. Aging EU always knew that investing in youthful Ireland was a safe bet. But what has scuppered all the plans was how easy it was to cod the Irish politicians with their outstretched paws. We have now got so much that the whole country could topple down, and all investments would be lost. The EU suffers with any decrease in our take home pay, public or private sector. Housing loans will not be paid back. If they do not help us (we now can pull in the hand) then our economy collapses: the EU losses €80billion Public borrowing, up to €100billion securitised mortgages (RMBS and CMBS), and €40bn of the €60Bn investment (Infrastructure CAP etc) we have yet to pay back. We are the country with the youngest age profile in the EU. We were to be the saviour of a decaying EU with a rapidly aging population. We are now a busted flush. Why? Simple, my dear man, it is all about demographics, which the EU is unable to match its economic and fiscal policies too.

There were other ways to avoid our present calamity other than awareness of demographics. I urged the government, media, politicians etc back in 2001 after house prices doubled between 1995 and 2000 "to use money as a means to achieve an end, and not as an end in itself". I knew this because I am a qualified banker, accountant. It is baffling me as to what all the other people who studied these disciplines learned from their studies and follow on CPD courses. What have we got to day, but an EU whose main fiscal and monetary policy is the rescue of "money" in the form of a grossly overblown banking industry!

I put it to you that there is a certain identifiable ingredient of the EU psychic that is missing in the modern EU parliament, that is to all our costs; and is why I advocate a No vote in the referendum on The Lisbon Treaty. Want to hear more: go to John F Higgins.eu | the lisbon treaty