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Thread: Dublin property prices falling by €4,500 a month

  1. #811
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    Latest Daft.ie report is out, it shows asking prices are down most in the top end of the market.

    Discussion and Rossa White's overview: http://www5.daft.ie/report/
    The report itself in PDF: http://www.daft.ie/report/DaftReport-Q12007.pdf
    The press release: http://www.daft.ie/news/2007/daft_report_Q1_2007.daft

    Quote:
    The upper-end of the Dublin property market has been hardest hit with some areas showing significant drops in asking prices over the last six months. In North Dublin, Howth and Malahide have seen drops of over 10%. In South Dublin, meanwhile, asking prices in Rathmines, Rathgar and Ranelagh are down 12.6%. Asking prices in the predominantly first-time-buyers areas of Lucan and Adamstown took a softer hit, down 4.2% over the same period.
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  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cochrane
    THE price of apartments in Dublin city centre is falling by up to €4,500 a month, and those in south Co Dublin and Galway city are also on the slide, according to a market survey.

    The analysis, prepared by Daft.ie, reveals a number of property price anomalies starting to emerge. The survey is based on prices sought for homes featured on the Daft.ie website, the country’s largest property site. - Sunday Times
    As to the specifics which is in the thread title

    A one bed in the city centre is now on average €317,000. In the daft report last quarter it was €320,000 and before that was €317,000 (which is pretty steady, although inflation of 1.25% and 2.5% would apply)

    North city one-bed apartments have risen from €293K in September, to €302 since then.

    South city has varied, starting at €339,000 to €311,000 in last quarter (this was the big fall that caused the fuss). However the apartments have risen on average to €329,000 in this report.

    Stamp duty is less of an issue for apartments since they are under €317K, les than 125 sq m and generally for first time buyers.
    The fluctuations say more about the quality and location of the new development which is released than the national property market.

    This is a good thread, shame about the title.

    http://www.daft.ie/report/DaftReport-Q42006.pdf
    http://www.daft.ie/report/DaftReport-Q32006.pdf
    We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.

  3. #813
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    Rossa White is our guest blogger, commenting on the lastest Daft research on the Irish property market.

    [30 April 2007]

    Ireland's housing market downturn in now almost nine months old. That makes its duration much longer than the blip in late-2001. At that time, more than five years ago, the market cooled for less than six months. In contrast, this slowdown may continue for the rest of the year at least.


    The latest Daft.ie figures show that vendors have revised their expectations for prices, as a result of weaker demand from potential buyers. But the data also continue to suggest that the most likely outcome for prices is a period of stagnation rather than significant decline.

    Asking prices increased only 2.1% year-on-year in April. That marks quite a change from a growth rate 13.8% when the market was hot in the same month one year ago. But year-on-year changes hide the turning point. In quarterly terms, prices slipped 0.5% in Q1 2007 compared with Q4 2006, an annualised rate of decline of 2%.

    The Daft.ie Asking Price Index highlights that the housing market overheated in the year to mid-2006. Since then, Dublin has seen the sharpest drop in asking prices. Yet the data on final selling prices from PTSB/ESRI records that Dublin prices have held up better than in the rest of the country over the last four or five months. This implies that sellers in the Dublin area became greedier than elsewhere during the buoyant first half of 2006. Asking prices were quickly pared from an unrealistic level. The reversal in expectations is conspicuous in high-end areas of the market: Between Q3 2006 and Q1 2007, asking prices plunged 17% in Howth, 13% in Rathmines, Rathgar and Ranelagh and 10% in Clontarf, Killiney and Dalkey.

    The recent slide in house-building has important implications both for the future direction of house prices and the economy as a whole. Builders and developers have reacted swiftly to falling demand thus far: it is the salient reason why overall asking prices were down only 2% in Q1 compared with the last three months of 2006. Housing starts decreased 22% year-on-year in October 2006-March 2007. The twelve-month running total has slipped to around 80,000 from a peak of 90,500 last September.

    The Irish experience contrasts somewhat with US house-builders' response to the inflection point in that market in late-summer 2005. Our American counterparts kept building liberally and did not pull in their horns until the start of 2006. Housing starts were finally slashed throughout last year but developers' delayed reaction meant that the over-supply problem was relatively contained rather than calamitous.

    What has happened in the US over the last 18 months may also provide a useful guide to future price trends here. Despite the biggest overhang of unsold stock in 16 years, their prices dropped only 5% year-on-year at worst.

    Selling prices are unlikely to decline sharply here for a number of reasons. First, Irish builders have cut supply immediately and radically. That may help prevent a debilitating overhang of unsold stock. Second, the majority of new home developers are cash-rich after years of high retained earnings. They can afford to sit and wait for sales to materialise without having to drop prices significantly. Third, existing home-owners wishing to trade-up invariably take their homes off the market rather than sell at a discount. In some cases, they may prefer to extend or renovate their homes rather than settle for a lower price. Our guess is that prices will be unchanged to slightly down over the next six months.

    But it is not easy to know when housing starts will bottom. Ireland has not witnessed a construction boom like this before. At least in the US, analysts can refer to the cyclical downturn in house-building in 1990/1991 as a guide. We no longer control interest rates, which is an added complication.

    Many issues are of particular relevance to the prospects for house-building. Near term, sentiment may improve if the stamp duty matter is resolved straight after the election.

    But stamp duty was not the salient reason why demand dried up. First time buyers (FTBs) neither pay stamp duty on new houses nor on second-hand homes valued at the national average. First-time buyer (FTB) demand weakened due to deteriorating affordability from rapidly rising house prices in the year to mid-2006 and from the increase in interest rates. This is reflected in rapid rent inflation, as potential buyers who could get approved for a mortgage were squeezed into the rental market (the Daft.ie index showed rents up 10.5% year-on-year in February). The challenge faced by FTBs was confirmed by the statistic that they took out 20% fewer mortgages in Q4 2006 compared with the same period a year ago. Affordability will improve with stagnant prices, but two more interest rate hikes may counter the potential boost to sentiment from stamp duty reform.

    Looking ahead to 2008, other variables will determine housing demand. Increased net inward migration between 2004 and 2007 raised demand by as much as 20,000 units. Will the rate of immigration slow, as employment prospects deteriorate? To what extent was demand brought forward from the future when the market was hot in the year to mid-2006? Will the expiration of tax incentives curtail appetite for second or holiday homes, which have accounted for at least 20,000 units per annum in the last few years?

    The implications of the downturn in new housing construction for the whole economy are broad. Growth in tax receipts from housing - VAT, stamp duty and capital gains - will moderate. As a result, tax revenue may miss the government forecast this year. Luckily, robust non-residential building will largely compensate for lower activity and job losses in housing. And the release of SSIA funds acts as a buffer. So the economy will be resilient in 2007. The real issue is 2008; from that perspective we hope that our forecast of 75,000 house completions next year does not prove overly optimistic.


    http://www.daft.ie/report/index.daft
    Irish Property/Finance/Economic Discussion Website:

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  4. #814
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    Rossa White is failing to join the dots to reveal the true depth of the problem. Lots of little snippets of the issues but no definitive statement.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by talkie

    Stamp Duty ...

    It obviously needs to be reformed but I can see house prices jump at the bottom end of the market making it even harder for those starting out.
    Why should it "obviously" change? It's one of the most progressive, fairest revenue sources we have.

    Stamp duty doesn't alter the prices of houses, the fundamentals of supply and demand do that.

    If supply and demand says that houses are worth €350K of a buyer's money and stamp duty is at 10%, the seller will move his house for a price of €315K.

    If stamp duty is abolished but the supply and demand figure doesn't change, the seller will move his house for a price of €350K.

    End of.

    The only people who could benefit from the reform of stamp duty would be the tiny number of sellers who do not become buyers immediately after.

    And everybody's income taxes will have to rise to make up for the shortfall from the loss of our fairest tax.
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  6. #816
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    LINK
    This issue is going to change the country and the parties are either turning a blind eye or genuinely dont know whats about to happen
    Irish Property/Finance/Economic Discussion Website:

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  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by feargach
    Quote Originally Posted by talkie

    Stamp Duty ...

    It obviously needs to be reformed but I can see house prices jump at the bottom end of the market making it even harder for those starting out.
    Why should it "obviously" change? It's one of the most progressive, fairest revenue sources we have.

    Stamp duty doesn't alter the prices of houses, the fundamentals of supply and demand do that.
    Exactly. Since when is a tax lowered to accommodate inflation. If a tax is to be lowered to counteract inflation then VAT should be lowered every year. Yet it wasn't, not even during the early-80s-style inflation Progressive Fáil brought back around 1999/2000.

  8. #818
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    Come on now - its election time and the graphs make it look like were gonna jump off a cliff! This issue is serious!


    Any takers??
    Irish Property/Finance/Economic Discussion Website:

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  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindjustice


    LINK
    This issue is going to change the country and the parties are either turning a blind eye or genuinely dont know whats about to happen
    Whats worrying about that graph is that it only runs to q1 2004 and prices rose a fair bit more since then! I predict 50% real falls over next 5-10 years.

  10. #820
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    Very scarey looking graphs.........and the Irish Times are reporting this morning that Davy's are predicted two more interest rate increase before September. The outlook in grim at best
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." —Groucho Marx

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