Labour and the Liffey Valley

[Clive Solas]

Labour have been talking up their position on the Liffey Valley and St Eds, at the doors for a while nor - and getting away with it.

They have been telling people that they were the only party to get all their councillors to sign up to the last campaign to save St Eds when, in fact, they were the last party to do so. OK Fianna Fail didn't but then nobody expected they would.

Only a week or two ago I believe that there was a motion before the council to request studies on the liffey Valley, with a view to preserving it and Eamon Tuffy got up and left the chamber just before the motion was raised. Although the motion was passed, there were no labour councillors in the chamber when the vote was taken.

Eamon Tuffy is still in favour of a vehicle route across the Liffey Valley at the Leixlip roundabout, Jones has never voted to preserve any part of the Liffey Valley.

What other Prokies have they been telling?

[UncleJim]

Labour have been talking up their position on the Liffey Valley and St Eds, at the doors for a while nor - and getting away with it.

They have been telling people that they were the only party to get all their councillors to sign up to the last campaign to save St Eds when, in fact, they were the last party to do so. OK Fianna Fail didn't but then nobody expected they would.

Only a week or two ago I believe that there was a motion before the council to request studies on the liffey Valley, with a view to preserving it and Eamon Tuffy got up and left the chamber just before the motion was raised. Although the motion was passed, there were no labour councillors in the chamber when the vote was taken.

Eamon Tuffy is still in favour of a vehicle route across the Liffey Valley at the Leixlip roundabout, Jones has never voted to preserve any part of the Liffey Valley.

What other Prokies have they been telling?

This is a subject that I have a personal interest in.

Which meeting was this raised at as I would like to check out the minutes? Why in your opinion would one of their members never vote to preserve the valley? I find it hard to believe that there were no Labour Councillors at a meeting when the Chair is a Labour member - this leads me to believe that the rest of your post may be at the very least misleading. I have asked the Labour TD about her stance on this issue and she didn't once say what you have stated that they are saying. What she said was that labour had the most numbers and they all oppose development at St. Eds and that this has been instrumental in blocking planning. I spoke to other parties too and no other party could deliver that level of influence when I asked. In your opinion have I been lied or are you just mud-slinging

[Clive Solas]

Hiya Jim

The Meeting was on Thursday 30th April , Guss O'Connell was chairing as Marie Corr (labour) had left. You're right that the 7 labour councillors are the largest single group but that's as far as it goes.

Check the minutes. I'll check with the person who told me this is you need more details.

[setanta]

For someone who claims knowledge about this matter Clive Solas is spectacularly ill-informed. Whatever party or candidate you are supporting is clearly very anxious at the support that Labour is getting in Lucan at this time.

FOR THE RECORD:

The Labour Party has opposed re-zoning of St Eds lands from the very beginning that these threats emerged and has been strongly in favour of the preservation of these lands as part of a linear national/regional park that stretches from the Phoenix Park to Kildare.

Joanna Tuffy TD has campaigned for all of her political career against developer-led rezoning in general and the despoilation of the Lifey Valley in particular.

As the largest goup on South Dublin County Council, Labour played a pivotal role in blocking the attempts to rezone St Eds at the beginning of this council's term and then again when the Affordable Housing Partnership tried a backdoor device to secure housing on St Eds land. This position was supported by the Greens and local Independents, who also have a commendable record on this matter, but without the political muscle of the Labour Party on the Council, including Eamon Tufy and Caitrona Jones, there would already be bulldozers on that land.

The following letter signed by the seven Labour councillors on South Dublin County Council, and reproduced from one of the LP's recent leaflets, clearly demonstrates the strength of Labour's position in defence of the Liffey Valley:

[woollythinker]

Hiya Jim

The Meeting was on Thursday 30th April , Guss O'Connell was chairing as Marie Corr (labour) had left. You're right that the 7 labour councillors are the largest single group but that's as far as it goes.

Check the minutes. I'll check with the person who told me this is you need more details.

Clive Solas,

I am glad you suggested checking the minutes. I duly sought a copy of the minutes of the meeting from one of the councillors. Get a copy for yourself and you will see that the motion you refer to was agreed unanimously. There was no vote at all and it was agreed without dissent. For the record there were 13 roll call votes in total at that meeting and Cllr Tuffy voted on 11 of them, more than any other councillor present at that meeting. 6 out of the 7 Labour councillors were present at the meeting. All councillors at such marathon meetings move around the chamber, leave for e.g. to go to the bathroom and come back. But I as a member of the Lucan Labour Party spoke to Cllr. Tuffy the target of your innuendo and he confirmed to me that he was in attendance for all of the meeting and did no such thing as you mischievously allege. In any case, as you probably know yourself from whence you are coming, Cllr. Tuffy, is straight up and if he did not agree with a motion he would say so and vote against. But on this issue in particular you are out of line because Cllr. Tuffy has spent decades campaigning against proposals to rezone the lands at the Liffey including at St. Edmundsbury, Woodville and St. Catherine's Park alongside the local Labour Party and former councillor for Lucan Michael Gannon. He was director of elections for Joan Burton who was elected T.D. for the area in 1992 who persuaded Michael D. Higgins as Minister to purchase part of the lands at the Liffey Valley (Lucan Demesne) for a public park. Going on Labour's past record I am sure that If the motion you referred to had been voted upon and there had been any danger of it being defeated, the Labour Party and Cllr. Eamon TUffy would not have been found lacking. Labour has consistently defended the lands at Liffey Valley from inappropriate zonings and why would it be any different at the meeting you refer to? You can be as mischevious as you like but your allegations are so absurd you have no credibility as a poster and instigator of this thread.

It is important that all 7 Labour councillors gave a written committment to oppose the proposal from Ballymore Homes and the Affordable Homes Partnership to rezone the lands at St. Edmundsbury for housing. No doubt the efforts of all local public representatives and the local community and the Save the Liffey Valley campaign were vital in ensuring the proposal was withdrawn by the Affordable Homes Partnership. But one of the reasons the partnership gave for withdrawing the proposal was the lack of support amongst the county councillors on South Dublin County Council. As Labour had the largest number of councillors on the Council their committment to voting against the proposal was therefore very important in bringing about this volte face by the Affordable Homes Partnership. But I can ensure you there is no complacency in the Labour Party about the need to be vigilant and always be ready for the next time there is an attempt to rezone these or any other lands that should not be rezoned for housing (such as Newcastle for example - Labour and the Greens to the forefront opposing attempts to rezone lands there only 2 years ago, unlike certain other Lucan Electoral area public representatives).

You can try to throw dirt at any politician you like, that's just the way it goes, but if you care about the Liffey Valley, in this post you have initiated, you are aiming at the wrong target.

[Clive Solas]

Hi All,

I, like everyone else was delighted when Labour signed the pledge for the liffey valley - that brought the number of councillors against it over to the majority. As you all know practically everyone else had signed up at that stage. From memory, FG were the first!

Secondly, I have checked and am confident that Eamon Tuffy walked out of the chamber just as the motion to do studies on the valley was raised. Robert Dowds had left shortly before that and the other labour lot had left just before Robert. I think it was the last motion or at least, one of the last ones.

Eamon Tuffy was not present. No Labour councillors were present. Cathriona jones was not present at the meeting at all.

Labout, and the rest, have had five years in the council and the Valley still isn't safe. All we've done so far is stop the most recent threat.

I care about the Liffey valley, that's why I posted this.

Also you seem to have ignored the bit about Labour being in favour of a bridge across the Liffey at the Leixlip roundabout. This one is Eamon's baby too.

[setanta]

You've been caught out spoofing about the Labour Party councillors Clive. I'm not surprised, given the tone of your comments, that you can't show the good grace to accept that yours is an ill-informed partisan attack.

There will be no firm and final protection until there is a change of government and the Liffey Valley from Dublin to Kildare is designtated a national (or at least regional) park. The Greens in government have shown themselves incapable of delivering on this commitment so far, notwithstanding the good work done by them in Lucan. In the meantime, the heavy lifting in defence of St Eds lands will continue to be done by the Labour Group on South Dublin County Council. It's a real shame that rather than concentrate on maintaining the unity that has protected these lands this far, you have chosen to resort to such an ill-informed, partisan attack on good people that care about this amenity as much as you and I.

[woollythinker]

Hi All,

I, like everyone else was delighted when Labour signed the pledge for the liffey valley - that brought the number of councillors against it over to the majority. As you all know practically everyone else had signed up at that stage. From memory, FG were the first!

Secondly, I have checked and am confident that Eamon Tuffy walked out of the chamber just as the motion to do studies on the valley was raised. Robert Dowds had left shortly before that and the other labour lot had left just before Robert. I think it was the last motion or at least, one of the last ones.

Eamon Tuffy was not present. No Labour councillors were present. Cathriona jones was not present at the meeting at all.

Labout, and the rest, have had five years in the council and the Valley still isn't safe. All we've done so far is stop the most recent threat.

I care about the Liffey valley, that's why I posted this.

Also you seem to have ignored the bit about Labour being in favour of a bridge across the Liffey at the Leixlip roundabout. This one is Eamon's baby too.

They all signed up following the meeting organised by the Local Labour Party in the Spa that established the Save the Liffey Valley Campaign and ensured a community campaign as opposed to one dominated by any particular party. But Labour is the only party that got 7 councillors to sign a written pledge. That would have taken some effort. As for a bridge, a bridge is a bridge and housing is housing. There are many people in Lucan that think a crossing there would be better than a crossing at St. Edmundsbury for obvious reasons and that stopping traffic having to go through Lucan Village is a good thing and should be considered. And I take Cllr. Tuffy's word he attended all the meeting. And lets get this straight - the motion was unanimously agreed so why oh why are you raising this? As I said read the minutes - the motion was agreed without disent. 6 Labour councillors attended the meeting and Cllr. Tuffy voted on more roll call motions than any other councillor that attended that same meeting. I reckon you do care about the Liffey Valley but you are posting this because you want to mislead people about Labour's record on an issue they have a good record on. I wonder what candidate you are backing in the locals and would it be one of those who was prepared to rezone a few hundred acres in Newcastle only a couple of years ago, against the advice of the County Manager who said the County had enough land zoned for housing to last at least another ten years?

[Clive Solas]

OK,

I'm not supporting any candidate (actively but obviously I'll vote etc) The reason I started this is because I'm sick of hearing second or third hand how labour have "single handedly" saved the Valley. Every politican in the area claims this by the way.

I've spoken to someone who was at the meeting and can confirm that Eamon Tuffy left the meeting just before the vote. It's a pity that the vote was taken without a roll call as that would settle it but Eamon wasn't there.

What annoys me is that lots of councillors weren't there for that vote but at least I don't hear them claiming the credit for it.

A bridge is not just a "bridge", it is a sign that someone doesn't have the interests of the Liffey Valley at heart. I agree that there are massive problems with traffic in the village but building bridges across the valley is not the solution.

Setanta, I haven't been caught spoofing because I'm not spoofing. I agree that the greens are a woeful failure in government but I think you are being a bit too fair about their local work. This is a disgrace too. But say what you like, Councillors can declare an SAAO by themselves. They can dezone land in the county plan. By the way Eamon Tuffy also killed a motion to stop the rezoning of liffey valley golf club. They could introduce any niumber of protections in the new plan but they haven't
Neither have the other parties but the motion Eamon walked out on was proposed by Guss O'connell and Seconded by Shane O'Connor and Derek Keating.


Shout all you like, Eamon was caught doing what he always does, avoiding the issue.

Lastly, unity within the councillors hasent saved the valley so far - it's unity in the community that did it.

[woollythinker]

OK,

I'm not supporting any candidate (actively but obviously I'll vote etc) The reason I started this is because I'm sick of hearing second or third hand how labour have "single handedly" saved the Valley. Every politican in the area claims this by the way.

I've spoken to someone who was at the meeting and can confirm that Eamon Tuffy left the meeting just before the vote. It's a pity that the vote was taken without a roll call as that would settle it but Eamon wasn't there.

What annoys me is that lots of councillors weren't there for that vote but at least I don't hear them claiming the credit for it.

A bridge is not just a "bridge", it is a sign that someone doesn't have the interests of the Liffey Valley at heart. I agree that there are massive problems with traffic in the village but building bridges across the valley is not the solution.

Setanta, I haven't been caught spoofing because I'm not spoofing. I agree that the greens are a woeful failure in government but I think you are being a bit too fair about their local work. This is a disgrace too. But say what you like, Councillors can declare an SAAO by themselves. They can dezone land in the county plan. By the way Eamon Tuffy also killed a motion to stop the rezoning of liffey valley golf club. They could introduce any niumber of protections in the new plan but they haven't
Neither have the other parties but the motion Eamon walked out on was proposed by Guss O'connell and Seconded by Shane O'Connor and Derek Keating.


Shout all you like, Eamon was caught doing what he always does, avoiding the issue.

Lastly, unity within the councillors hasent saved the valley so far - it's unity in the community that did it.

Clive Solas,

You are just being ridiculous here - if he had left the meeting it would not matter because the motion had unanimous support. But he was there and if there had been a roll call vote he was available to support the motion. Lets go back over the record again because you must not have been active in Lucan for very long or you would know this- Labour lined up all its councillors to vote against the rezoning of St. Eds in 2007 just as it did in 2003/2004 forcing the manager to withdraw a proposal at the time to include a rezoning of St. Eds in the Development Plan. In 1998 all 3 Labour councillors and two of the three democratic left councillors voted against a proposed rezoning of St. Edmundsbury. Eamon Tuffy has campaigned for decades before ever elected to office against the rezoning of St. Edmundsbury. Similarly he campaigned against the rezoning of St. Catherine's Park near Cooldrinagh. Cllr. Michael Gannon consistently voted against this and other bad zonings in and around Lucan. You could not have a problem with Labour talking about their record on planning unless you are working with another candidate. Any one reading this thread will be able to see that.

On that note you don't seem to have any problem with the fact that Cllrs Keating and O'Connell voted at the Lucan Area Committee to rezone 400 plus acres for housing in Newcastle in 2007, a rezoning promoted by Sandymark Construction. Why is that and where were you then? Labour and the Greens were shouting from the rooftops at the time that it would be a bad idea to rezone land in Newcastle when we have enough zoned land in the County to last at least 10 years. This proposal came up at the same time as the proposal to rezone St. Eds and Woodville. The same argument was being made in relation to St. Eds and Woodville that apart from it being wrong to rezone lands at the Liffey Valley such a rezoning was unnecessary because of the fact that there was enough land already zoned in the county. If the rezoning of lands at Newcastle had been passed by the Council it would have been disastrous for the campaign against rezoning of St. Edmundsbury. It would have set a very bad precedent and looked like Keating and O'Connell were only against rezonings in their back yard. I could say more about that controversial zoning but I won't. You can read it up in the archives of the Irish Times to see the story that preceeded it being defeated at Council level. In the interest of fairness Cllr. Keating and O'Connell did change their mind on this particular zoning but the point is you are very silent about your opinions on how they voted for it at Area Committee level. Its the rezoning votes that matter after all - not votes about studies etc. But even that being the case Labour would not have been found wanting if there had been a vote on the motions you refer to.