Originally Posted by Tomas Mor

Wonder has any study been done on the effects of the Ne Temere decree on Protestants. It must have been massive, especially where Protestants were in a minority.

It was highly effective in achieving its primary goal of ensuring that the children of catholics married to non catholics were brought up as catholics.
Where non catholics were in the minority it also achieved its secondary objective of reducing that minority further.

Originally Posted by Tomas Mor

It was cruel and oppressive.

On what basis?
Nobody was forced to remain a catholic or to obey the requirements of the ne temere decree.
Poster T.Mor unjustified criticism fails to mention that.

Additionally the catholic church used the ne temere decree as a device to ensure that its flock increased and in this regard it was successful.

Would Poster T Mor regard all similiar corporate strategms
to maintain and increase their membership as cruel & oppressive?
--

Originally Posted by JohnD66

Great post, thanks a lot.

Was familiar with Hill already and justa few weeks ago came across Mguire's article on the Conservative club. Very interesting. Apparently there was rioting between them and Home Rulers in 1886 when the Conservative club displayed a union jack outside thier club hall on York Street. The wierd thing is that by the 1916-23 period they took no part at all in militant politics, accordign to that article.

What happened in the meantime to that tendency towards militant loyalism in Dublin? Demographic change? Political change? Softening of attitudes in Dublin?

I should also have mentioned a new book by Heather Crawford, Outside the glow: Protestants and Irishness in independent Ireland, (Dublin, UCD Press, 2010), which is based on oral histories. I've only dipped in and out of it, but there is a review of it here: Who are the Irish? Review: Outside the Glow by Heather K. Crawford « Pue's Occurrences

Originally Posted by fool

There are still a fair few Dublin based working class prods.
It's highly unlikely that any of them would have been in the Black and Tans, as the tans were recruited in Britain, rather than in Dublin, where people who live in Dublin live.

There were plenty of irishmen in the tans.



Irish recruits were, on average, nearly a year and a half younger (25.5 years). The ten men who gave their birthplace as the USA were the tallest, at six feet, but the Irishmen maintained the constabulary height tradition at nearly five feet nine and a half inches, eight-tenths of an inch taller than other UK recruits.
Among the 490 Irish-born in the sample, nearly 60 per cent came from the provinces of Leinster (26.8%) and Ulster (31.3%). Munster and Connacht shared 37 per cent almost equally (the county of birth for almost five per cent is not known). Eighty-two per cent of Black-and-Tans and Auxiliaries sampled were Protestant, 17.4 per cent were Catholic and there were ten English Jews. The largest proportion of Catholics, not surprisingly, was found among the Irish recruits (59 per cent of the 478 Catholics in the sample).

Originally Posted by asset test

Great thread for me. It has made me remember a lot of my family history, much of which still has to be discovered! Don't want to turn this post into anything genealogical, but my maternal grandfather was CofI. He converted to marry my grandma in 1923. His family lived in Iveagh Trust and Bride Street (one of his brothers had a lowish job in Guinness).

Funnily enough out of 3 boys and 4 girls in his family, 2 of the boys converted to Catholicism to marry, 1 married a CofI girl, but the 4 girls remained single.

Relatives from the one boy to stay Cof I are now living in Taney Parish in Dundrum.

Apologies for going off on a tangent here. This has made me want to really investigate the Protestant history of our family. Thanks to thread starter.

Was it really necessary to convert?
My C of I grandfather married my RC grandmother in the twenties and stayed C of I, although my father had to be raised RC due to the whole Ne Temare business.

Perhaps certain priests or bishops had control of the issue in some areas, and forced conversion on people.

http://eprints.dkit.ie/73/1/The_Orga..._1883-1935.pdf

A very interesting piece on a working class protestant social club in Dublin.

The Protestant community in Ireland have a hell of a lot to answer for. I don't think I've ever heard their church or political leaders ever once acknowledge the ruination they brought upon the lives of millions. For the love of Jesus indeed.