Could Dublin expand against the will of its neighboroughs?

[THR]

How does the Irish municipal law work? I understand that Dublin is a fairly densely populated city with 500,000 people in 115 sqkm giving an average population density of 4400 per sqkm.

Hypothetically speaking, how would things work out if the Dublin city-council and the Mayor of Dublin say that they want to incorporate, say, 100 sqkm of of land from the neighboroughing Fingal in order to alleviate the lack of space within the city of Dublin itself? Would the central government of Ireland support such a move? What if the population of the area planned to be moved within the Dublin city-boundaries were 100% against such an idea? Would it happen nevertheless?

Of course, circumstances differ from one country to another. However, in my county the capital has unilaterally announced that it wants to have 50sqkm of the neighboroughing municipality`s land incorporated into the capital. the central government backs the move because "it is the interest of the country to have a strong capital".

In what way is changing the municipal boundaries in order to serve very rich taxpayers in the interests of the whole country? Especially when those rich taxpayers themselves who live in the area planned to be merged to the capital are against the idea.

[Coles]

Check out this site http://fgibbons.com/population.shtml to get an idea of the changes in population density that Dublin, and the rest of Ireland, is experiencing...

[Dubliner]

Hypothetically speaking, how would things work out if the Dublin city-council and the Mayor of Dublin say that they want to incorporate, say, 100 sqkm of of land from the neighboring Fingal in order to alleviate the lack of space within the city of Dublin itself?

It's quite unlikely. The county and municipal councils have little political power and hardly any revenue-raising ability, being mostly funded from taxes collected by central government.

Maybe in other countries the local authorities have more power.

[michael1965]

It's not going to happen in Dublin because there are four separate local authorities in the Dublin area, all of which already own a piece of the city (so to speak). There is no particular reason to transfer land between them as far as I can tell.

This is an issue however, in Cork and Limerick, where (I think) the cities are developed right up to the boundary with the surrounding county area and the cities both want to take over land belonging to the surrounding county. It's a pretty hot topic in those places needless to say.

[Schuhart]

From media coverage of the Limerick and Waterford cases, the Minister for the Environment seems to have the final call on any boundary change. Judging from those cases, the system seems to be something like the relevant council makes a proposal for an extension. That proposal can be commented on by the impacted council(s), and ultimately the Minister makes his call.

I can't quote chapter and verse on what statutory authority this is all based on.

[cllr]

Hypothetically speaking, how would things work out if the Dublin city-council and the Mayor of Dublin say that they want to incorporate, say, 100 sqkm of of land from the neighboring Fingal in order to alleviate the lack of space within the city of Dublin itself?

It's quite unlikely. The county and municipal councils have little political power and hardly any revenue-raising ability, being mostly funded from taxes collected by central government.

Maybe in other countries the local authorities have more power.

Just a correction here of the E840 million Current Budget for Dublin City Council approximately E97million of that comes from the Local Government Fund operated by central Government. That fund comes from the income from motor tax. Ironically last year Dublin City Council collected E141million in motor tax which was then trasnferrred to central Government. So much for central Government funding Dublin City Council.

[THR]

There really is a funny phenomenom of some sort of municipal imperialism going on in my country as the number of municipalities will be reduced from the current 431, which is clearly too many, to something in between 150-250.

However, in my opinion municipal mergers should always be approved by all parties concerned. If a merger is imposed on a small municipality against its will, what comes next? For example, the EU decides to merge smaller countries into bigger ones?

[Schuhart]

However, in my opinion municipal mergers should always be approved by all parties concerned. If a merger is imposed on a small municipality against its will, what comes next? For example, the EU decides to merge smaller countries into bigger ones?

This is not really relevant to what's happening here. The situation has more to do with boundaries ceasing to relate to the geographical realities on the ground. Hence, large parts of the cities (this is particularly a problem for Limerick and Waterford) are located outside the jurisdiction of the authority that needs to look after them.

The opposition to extensions has to do with the neighbouring counties wanting to retain the revenue that goes with having a part of the city population in their borders, while at the same time disregarding the need to actually serve that population as 'that's a job for the other lot'.

The outcome of this issue is that the development of regional cities are hampered, which has the knock on problem that development and growth end up centred in Dublin by default.

All that might be a bit of a mouthful if the issue and specifics of the Irish situation is new to you, and its hard to think of where to start. I think this speech on the launch of the consultation on the spatial strategy gives some necessary background in that it gives a little history about the Buchanon Report. This perspective is crucial in understanding what the boundary extension issue is about. It's not a power grab - its a response to what is probably the key obstruction to balanced regional development.

[michael1965]

However, in my opinion municipal mergers should always be approved by all parties concerned. If a merger is imposed on a small municipality against its will, what comes next? For example, the EU decides to merge smaller countries into bigger ones?

This is not really relevant to what's happening here. The situation has more to do with boundaries ceasing to relate to the geographical realities on the ground. Hence, large parts of the cities (this is particularly a problem for Limerick and Waterford) are located outside the jurisdiction of the authority that needs to look after them.

The opposition to extensions has to do with the neighbouring counties wanting to retain the revenue that goes with having a part of the city population in their borders, while at the same time disregarding the need to actually serve that population as 'that's a job for the other lot'.

The outcome of this issue is that the development of regional cities are hampered, which has the knock on problem that development and growth end up centred in Dublin by default.

All that might be a bit of a mouthful if the issue and specifics of the Irish situation is new to you, and its hard to think of where to start. I think this speech on the launch of the consultation on the spatial strategy gives some necessary background in that it gives a little history about the Buchanon Report. This perspective is crucial in understanding what the boundary extension issue is about. It's not a power grab - its a response to what is probably the key obstruction to balanced regional development.

Another significant factor is the issue of county identity. Wasn't it the case that residents of Co. Clare bordering on Limerick city, did not want to be transferred into Limerick, simply because they saw themselves as Clare people and not Limerick people. Of course, that's not a factor in every case, where the neighbouring LA is in the same county, but I imagine it is the biggest political stumbling block in many.

[THR]

What are your views? Is it good or bad for Ireland that Dublin and its satellites form such an overwhelming area in the country? Should there be measures to stop Dublin from becoming ever more powerful at the expense of other Irish localities or do you think that the country needs as strong a locomotive as possible?.