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  1. #1
    Congalltee Congalltee is offline

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    EU common defence: Ireland attends Permanent Structured Co-operation meeting which agrees to launch in December

    30 projects already on the table
    Permanency
    Agreed budget structure
    Common capability against the evil empire
    Unity in the face of Brexit

    What’s the downside?

    https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/...y%20end%202017

    Denmark, Malta and Portigual could also join later.

    Minister Paul Kehoe attends Foreign Affairs and Defence Council in Brussels
    The Minister with Responsibility for Defence, Paul Kehoe, T.D. today (Monday, 13th November) attended the Foreign Affairs and Defence Ministers Council in Brussels. The meeting dealt with a range of ongoing developments in relation to the EU Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP). The agenda included discussions on the security and defence aspects of the EU’s Global Strategy on Foreign and Security Policy, including Permanent Structured Cooperation and the European Defence Fund and the priorities for civilian crisis management in CSDP. There was a discussion on EU/NATO Cooperation. It was followed by a meeting of the Steering Board of the European Defence Agency in Defence Ministers format.

    PESCO is a Lisbon Treaty mechanism providing a framework for groups of EU Member States to come together and, on a project by project basis, jointly develop military crisis management capabilities for use in support of CSDP Operations. It is designed to provide the Union and its member States with greater efficiency and enhanced capabilities to enable the Union to respond more rapidly to major crises in support of international peace and security. The framework recognises the centrality of the UN in relation to international peace and security and the importance of multilateralism. It also recognises that Defence and defence expenditure remains a national prerogative and that PESCO participation has no implications for the specific defence policies of member States.

    Commenting on the PESCO initiative, Minister Kehoe stated that: “PESCO can contribute to improve the capacity of the EU and member States to support international peace and security, both as EU and as troop contributors on UN mandated missions. It is also a means of enhancing interoperability and ensuring that our troops are equipped with the latest and best equipment and training."

    Concluding, the Minister said: “Ireland has and continues to be a major contributor to EU operations and participates actively in all aspects of CSDP. We plan to remain at the centre of CSDP developments."
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  2. #2
    sparky42 sparky42 is offline

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    In reality I don't see us changing anything in terms of the DF.
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  3. #3
    former wesleyan former wesleyan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky42 View Post
    In reality I don't see us changing anything in terms of the DF.
    Exactly. They've just privatised the Air Ambulance rather than upgrade or invest in the Air Corps so I don't see the DF being present in any capacity other than observers any time soon.
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  4. #4
    sparky42 sparky42 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by former wesleyan View Post
    Exactly. They've just privatised the Air Ambulance rather than upgrade or invest in the Air Corps so I don't see the DF being present in any capacity other than observers any time soon.
    I suppose it could depend on what's taken as taking part, I mean I could see them spinning the Maltese training we do as "jointness". As to the AC it's a fair point (I'd have preferred some of the HSE's budget got moved over to help the AC budget), how much is the HSE to pay for this new contract I wonder?
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  5. #5
    Catalpast Catalpast is online now
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    In effect it puts us in tandem with NATO

    Surely that in itself a breach of our Neutrality?

    We have also shared these steps with the NATO Secretary General [Jens Stoltenberg]. As always, we have invited him to join our Defence Ministers' meeting, as I was joining the NATO Defence Ministers just a few days ago. He welcomed these steps and we discussed all the actions for cooperation that the European Union and NATO have developed in this last year....

    at the same time, we have never developed such a strong cooperation between the European Union and NATO is the living proof of the fact that two things can go hand-in-hand and actually do.

    Remarks by High Representative/Vice-President Federica Mogherini at the press conference following the Foreign Affairs Council

    Brussels, 13 November 2017
    https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/...e-following_en
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  6. #6
    sparky42 sparky42 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    In effect it puts us in tandem with NATO

    Surely that in itself a breach of our Neutrality?
    No it doesn't put us in "tandem with NATO" whatever that's meant to mean. Basically it means that NATO doesn't really give a flying feck about what's being proposed and won't unless/until serious monies start going into it (which they won't). Meanwhile so far what's been talked about is stuff that's more basic command and control stuff than anything else, unless you think improving roads/rail connections is somehow the end of the world...
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  7. #7
    Catalpast Catalpast is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky42 View Post
    No it doesn't put us in "tandem with NATO" whatever that's meant to mean. Basically it means that NATO doesn't really give a flying feck about what's being proposed and won't unless/until serious monies start going into it (which they won't). Meanwhile so far what's been talked about is stuff that's more basic command and control stuff than anything else, unless you think improving roads/rail connections is somehow the end of the world...
    You clearly don't really understand what is happening here....
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  8. #8
    mr_anderson mr_anderson is online now
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    EU Army established 13th November 2017.
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  9. #9
    Congalltee Congalltee is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson View Post
    EU Army established 13th November 2017.
    (Twenty) Seven Nation Army coming for you.
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  10. #10
    lostexpectation lostexpectation is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Congalltee View Post
    30 projects already on the table
    Permanency
    Agreed budget structure
    Common capability against the evil empire
    Unity in the face of Brexit

    What’s the downside?

    https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/...y%20end%202017

    It also recognises that Defence and defence expenditure remains a national prerogative and that PESCO participation has no implications for the specific defence policies of member States.
    .
    the list of "ambitious and more binding common commitments"

    Defence cooperation: 23 member states sign joint notification on the Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) - Consilium


    so recognises defence is a nation perogative but also binds to commitments (if we sign up)

    huh?
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