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  1. #81
    Odyessus Odyessus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    What happened was a disgrace. Some of the victims ended up in their late 40s with the sort of poor hearing experienced by the average person in their 80s. People were turned down for jobs after leaving the army because of the state of their hearing, and were left unemployable, all thanks to sheer negligence.

    Defence forces do have a problem because of the command structure where if someone at the top doesn't take something like protecting hearing, or bullying, or other things seriously, they get away with it because of the culture of obedience. A culture of obedience is necessary in armies, but you then have to guard against abuse of that culture of obedience. The fact that some people at a senior level could ignore all advice, all recommendations and all international practice, and expose thousands of people to permanent and irreparable damage shows that danger that can happen. There was a similar problem with bullying, which in the UK led to quite a lot of suicides of young soldiers who were unable to challenge it when done by superiors.

    So the OP suggestion that the deafness claims was a scam is ignorant, ill-informed and childish.

    My only point of disagreement with you is where the responsibility for this wilful negligence lay. The people responsible were the successive governments and and Ministers for Defence who wilfully refused to provide ear-defenders for the Defence Forces, simply to save money. They cannot plead ignorance of the damage caused to hearing from firing exercises, as they supplied ear-defenders for the Gardai.

    It was a shameful attitude that soldiers were not important enough to have money spent on them to protect their hearing. It angers me that no politician is held to account for the permanent and unnecessary hearing loss caused to former members of the Defence Forces, and the hundreds of millions it has cost the taxpayer, simply because no party can afford to point the finger as they were all culpable.

    Much easier to let the victims take the blame and be the butt of public jokes.
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  2. #82
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyessus View Post
    My only point of disagreement with you is where the responsibility for this wilful negligence lay. The people responsible were the successive governments and and Ministers for Defence who wilfully refused to provide ear-defenders for the Defence Forces, simply to save money. They cannot plead ignorance of the damage caused to hearing from firing exercises, as they supplied ear-defenders for the Gardai.

    It was a shameful attitude that soldiers were not important enough to have money spent on them to protect their hearing. It angers me that no politician is held to account for the permanent and unnecessary hearing loss caused to former members of the Defence Forces, and the hundreds of millions it has cost the taxpayer, simply because no party can afford to point the finger as they were all culpable.

    Much easier to let the victims take the blame and be the butt of public jokes.
    The question is however did successive ministers refuse to provide ear-defenders, or did the people in command insist they were not needed? Ministers would not be involved in every aspect of army life. Would they have been involved in that decision, or was that an area that was exclusively the command of the commanders? I don't know the answer to be honest. Going from memory I thought it was a decision of the command of the Defence Forces not to follow normal international procedure, rather than a decision of the Department or the Minister to order the Defence Forces to ignore normal international procedure. But that is simply going from memory. I could be wrong. Whoever took the decision, whether it was policy (the minister) or administrative (the army command) behaved disgracefully.
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  3. #83
    Myles na gCopaleen Myles na gCopaleen is offline

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    some soldiers were genuine and honest and did suffer hearing loss from the discharge of artillery and heavy guns and bomb explosions. And they deserved their compensation. However some pretended to be deaf and tried to rip off the system. The badly guy in this video claims to be deaf, physically disabled and not able to move or do anything. He looks ok to me. What do ye think here ?
    Galway city. Social Welfare fraud. Baldy guy claims to be disabled - YouTube
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  4. #84
    Idont Believit Idont Believit is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myles na gCopaleen View Post
    some soldiers were genuine and honest and did suffer hearing loss from the discharge of artillery and heavy guns and bomb explosions. And they deserved their compensation. However some pretended to be deaf and tried to rip off the system. The badly guy in this video claims to be deaf, physically disabled and not able to move or do anything. He looks ok to me. What do ye think here ?
    Galway city. Social Welfare fraud. Baldy guy claims to be disabled - YouTube
    I think Myles is really Rip Van Winkle.
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  5. #85
    Odyessus Odyessus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myles na gCopaleen View Post
    some soldiers were genuine and honest and did suffer hearing loss from the discharge of artillery and heavy guns and bomb explosions. And they deserved their compensation. However some pretended to be deaf and tried to rip off the system. The badly guy in this video claims to be deaf, physically disabled and not able to move or do anything. He looks ok to me. What do ye think here ?
    Galway city. Social Welfare fraud. Baldy guy claims to be disabled - YouTube
    What has the video to do with Army deafness claims? We all know that some claims for disability are unfounded, but Army deafness claims had to be proven. Soldiers claiming deafness had to undergo brain scans while different tones were played through headphones. A computer recorded whether or not the tone registered in the brain. Even then, if the soldier concerned had a hobby such as playing drums in a rock band in his spare time, or if his hearing loss could possibly be attributed to another cause other that his military service, the government fought the claim.

    The idea that soldiers simply had to claim they were deafened by gunfire to be handed compensation is a tabloid myth, bought into by the usual unthinking public.
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  6. #86
    lying eyes lying eyes is offline

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    [QUOTE=jdaly;4629721]I don't know how much was paid out, I couldn't hear the announcemen


    Just like the Army it was going on deaf ears........
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  7. #87
    firefly123 firefly123 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyessus View Post
    What has the video to do with Army deafness claims? We all know that some claims for disability are unfounded, but Army deafness claims had to be proven. Soldiers claiming deafness had to undergo brain scans while different tones were played through headphones. A computer recorded whether or not the tone registered in the brain. Even then, if the soldier concerned had a hobby such as playing drums in a rock band in his spare time, or if his hearing loss could possibly be attributed to another cause other that his military service, the government fought the claim.

    The idea that soldiers simply had to claim they were deafened by gunfire to be handed compensation is a tabloid myth, bought into by the usual unthinking public.
    Don't bother. The media have told people what to think and that's that. So what if people developed permanent disability that was flagged and easily avoidable. Sure isn't that what they signed up for... Or something.
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  8. #88
    Uttercontempt Uttercontempt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefly123 View Post
    Don't bother. The media have told people what to think and that's that. So what if people developed permanent disability that was flagged and easily avoidable. Sure isn't that what they signed up for... Or something.
    While there were some who did get compensation for NIHL, there were others who were compensated for age related hearing loss. This was particularly the case for compensation for future loss of hearing.

    I also heard anecdotally others who have themselves NIHL ( Headphones full blast etc) prior to assessment ( rather stupid if true)
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  9. #89
    Odyessus Odyessus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uttercontempt View Post
    While there were some who did get compensation for NIHL, there were others who were compensated for age related hearing loss. This was particularly the case for compensation for future loss of hearing.

    I also heard anecdotally others who have themselves NIHL ( Headphones full blast etc) prior to assessment ( rather stupid if true)

    It is not true that soldiers were compensated for age related hearing loss. The normal deterioration in hearing due to age was the benchmark against which claimants hearing loss was measured. No audiologist would expect a 50 year old man to have the same acuity of hearing as a 20 year old.

    In any case, noise induced hearing loss produces a particular pattern of hearing loss in certain frequencies which can be distinguished from age related hearing loss that would be considered normal given the claimant's age.
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