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  1. #1
    thebig C thebig C is offline

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    Irish Defence Forces - Myths and Legends!

    Hey Gang

    In most European and developed countries the process of procurement is very standardised, the relevant military submits a list of equipment and generally they get it. The only debate usually centres on quantity. In Ireland, the wisdom goes, the DF think of what they need.....then the capibility is slashed by 200%, the quantity is reduced by 50% and finally the maximum budget is divided by 10.....and thats what we end up with!!

    Possibly, as a result of this ad-hoc procurment system, over the years there have arisen various stories and folklore regarding items which the DF looked for and never got, or we were about to buy and the deal fell through, or we were offered something as a type of foreign assistance but the Government demured. Some of these legends are seemingly true.....others are fantasy!

    Whilst posting on the thread regarding the new OPVs for the NS I was very impressed by the depth and knowledge displayed by some of the posters regarding Irish military affairs and very much enjoyed some of the anecdotes regarding facets of DF life!

    Some rumours have been confirmed to me, other haven't, thats why I am proposing a Q&A thread regarding all the "what might have beens" in the DF over the years!

    Obviously, anything posted should pertain only to historical events and not anything that might effect current operations

    Ok, I will get the ball rolling with this nugget.....

    I was told that in the late 1960s when it was obvious the Flower Class Corvettes needed replacing that the Government had agreed to buy a 340ft frigate which had been sitting idle in the UK. This ship had been ordered by Kwame Nkrumah to serve as flagship of the Ghanian Navy along with Presidential Yacht. Construction was nearing completion when he was overthrown in 1966, and subsequently the new government of General Ankrah refused to accept the vessel because of the cost. It then sat tied up at the quayside awaiting a buyer! I dismissed the Irish angle as BS until I did a little research....I found out that the Government actually announced an intention to purchase in December 1968, and further, confirmed this in Dail questions in early 1969!!!

    Dil ireann - Volume 242 - 20 November, 1969 - Ceisteann—Questions. Oral Answers. - Corvettes.

    Subsequently....as we know nothing came of this and the NS was reduced to a fleet of zero! Black Star as the frigate was known went on to serve in the RN as HMS Mermaid and later as KD Hang Tuah with indonesia!

    So, anybody know the rest of the story?

    C
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  2. #2
    seanmacc seanmacc is offline
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    Don't know about that story in particular.

    I can tell you though that the Irish military got themselves about 5 or 6 humvees that the U.S just left behind when they pulled out of Liberia (My brother was on that mission)

    They used them for a number of days when they were there and supposedly then they were shipped back to Ireland and now their location is unknown.

    There is also a myth that in some bunker somewhere that there is several A10 tankbusters that somehow found their way to Ireland when the yanks were on the way back from Vietnam. At the time the yanks were throwing helicopters, planes and tanks into the sea on the way back to the US as it was more expensive to transport them and mothball them than build new ones. That could be a DF myth but I've heard this one been mentioned by a few lads on a number of occasions
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  3. #3
    Grumpy Jack Grumpy Jack is offline
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    During the recent helicopter procurement for the Air Corps, the DF wanted the US Blackhawk. The Rangers had operated with them in Timor and loved them.

    The US offered a deal, whatever number you buy new (six or eight), we'll give you the same number of surplus machines for free and all you'll have to do is pay to refit/upgrade them to your specs.

    DF loved this idea but Willie and the DoD decided to buy six untested new civilian machines, stick in a few military radios and paint them green.

    I was told that by a number of army and AC officers.

    Apparently, Bertie and FF were afraid of the reaction of the Greens and other crusties that we would be buying American 'helicopter gunships' that were blowing the bejaysus out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon.
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  4. #4
    Munnkeyman Munnkeyman is offline
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    Bought Ton Class minesweepers that had to be towed from Gibraltar

    [COLOR=#006600]Dil ireann - Volume 246 - 21 May, 1970 - Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fisheries Protection.[/COLOR]

    Dil ireann - Volume 253 - 06 May, 1971 - Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Mine Sweepers.

    Apparently they weren't fit for sea in heavy weather
    Dil ireann - Volume 255 - 15 July, 1971 - Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Naval Service Minesweeper.

    [COLOR=#0645ad]Grainne (CM10)[/COLOR] (1971–1987)
    [COLOR=#0645ad]Banba (CM11)[/COLOR] (1971–1984)
    [COLOR=#0645ad]Fola (CM12)[/COLOR] (1971–1987)
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  5. #5
    jcdf jcdf is offline
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    I do not know any rumors about “what might have beens” in the procurement for the Irish Defense Forces. I do know that the Irish government suffers from severe allergies to anything military related. I do not know why this surprises anyone.
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  6. #6
    Catalpa Catalpa is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcdf View Post
    I do not know any rumors about “what might have beens” in the procurement for the Irish Defense Forces. I do know that the Irish government suffers from severe allergies to anything military related. I do not know why this surprises anyone.
    Probably because of the lack of ex members of the DF in the Cabinet over the years....

    With the Greens in Government that situation only gets worse....

    The Armed Forces of the State should be doubled and we should develop a military export industry

    - we certainly have the knowledge base and international contacts to get this going.

    This could be worth billions to the State over time.

    With so many Irish out of a job its a no brainer IMO.
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  7. #7
    seanmacc seanmacc is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpa View Post
    Probably because of the lack of ex members of the DF in the Cabinet over the years....

    With the Greens in Government that situation only gets worse....

    The Armed Forces of the State should be doubled and we should develop a military export industry

    - we certainly have the knowledge base and international contacts to get this going.

    This could be worth billions to the State over time.

    With so many Irish out of a job its a no brainer IMO.
    Supposedly the Irish Army has developed the most sophisticated military radio communication system in the world and have chosen not to share it with anybody. I hear they received approaches from the US and Israel to develop a similar system for their use and refused.
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  8. #8
    Edo Edo is offline

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    Myths and Legends - when I heard about the "war games" exercises up in Wickla one year that the DF was so low on ammo and even blanks that the lads had to go around shouting "bang bang" at the opposition.............I though that was pure myth.....then again ya never know............
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  9. #9
    seanmacc seanmacc is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edo View Post
    Myths and Legends - when I heard about the "war games" exercises up in Wickla one year that the DF was so low on ammo and even blanks that the lads had to go around shouting "bang bang" at the opposition.............I though that was pure myth.....then again ya never know............
    A former FCA sergeant told me that's exactly what they had to do in the 70's. Blanks cost money and the DF were short of that back then, the permanent defence force weren't subject to that humiliation though apparently.
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  10. #10
    Dunlin3 Dunlin3 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmacc View Post
    There is also a myth that in some bunker somewhere that there is several A10 tankbusters that somehow found their way to Ireland when the yanks were on the way back from Vietnam. At the time the yanks were throwing helicopters, planes and tanks into the sea on the way back to the US as it was more expensive to transport them and mothball them than build new ones. That could be a DF myth but I've heard this one been mentioned by a few lads on a number of occasions
    Sorry to burst your bubble on this one but the A10 wasn't around for service in Vietnam!
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