Cannabis haul! This is a Joke, Wake Up Smell the Beans

[femmefatale]

I never stated that. I stated that you are so sure that all these cons exist without ever having taken the drug.

I think that he possibly should sample drugs before he assigns positive or negative effects to them as an expert, yes. I would be more convinced by a drug counsellor who had tried drugs and understood the experience who could empathise with a patient than a clinically cold one who only consulted "evidence".

This is ridiculous, Sarah. You want my uncle, a doctor specializing in drug rehabilitation, to try every drug he treats people for? You really think this?

[sarahj]

If no one has found any reason to ban it, why is it banned at all?

Are you really saying that it's comparable to tea? If so, why don't cannabis users just have a cup of that instead and forego their use of cannabis??

Alcohol is a different substance and poses different problems and risks. In these debates, I think it's helpful to compare like with like. Cannabis is not like tea or alcohol.

femme, why do I keep having to repeat myself for you? That has been explained earlier in the thread. The U.S. pushed prohibition through under the Single Drugs Convention for many reasons, including money. Hemp was threatening cotton, oil and other industries. Also, cannabis was a drug of the native people, not of the white man. It's prohibition was another way to keep the coloureds down. It's all in Martin Booth's "A History of Cannabis" which I recommended earlier in the thread.

I DID NOT SAY THAT IT IS COMPARABLE TO TEA IN EFFECT. I was merely refuting your assertion that if a person appears to be dependent on a substance, that certainly is no reason to criminalise it. I used the example of dependence on tea (my mother is utterly dependent) as an aexample.

Cannabis is like both tea and alcohol in SOME ways and not in others.

It's getting extremely tiresome to have to continually repeat myself. I thought, as a stoner, I'M the one that's supposed to have the bad memory?

[sarahj]

This is ridiculous, Sarah. You want my uncle, a doctor specializing in drug rehabilitation, to try every drug he treats people for? You really think this?

Do you really need to misrepresent every single post I make?!?!?!

I DID NOT SAY THAT!!!

I said that I would be more convinced by a doctor who had tried drugs he was treating for than one who hadn't. Personally.

I did not recommend this as a course of action for any particular doctor or for doctors in general for that matter.

Please try actually reading my posts.

[scratchnsniff]

And yet tens of millions of cannabis users don't waste their life. Barack Obama admits smoking dope and he's US President.
You're making a category error here. Cannabis didn't make your brother a waster. Your brother was a waster already who has sought comfort in cannabis to ease the pain of the fact that he's done nothing of worth in his existence.

No i am sorry, but he is 39, and has smoked heavily since around 19, I agree he is a waster (i have no time for him) but all the side effects and obsessed selfish behavior are real and have slowly come in getting progressively worse. I understand that i am being a bit unfair using someone you don't know as evidence for my case, but i have seen the steady changes in him. I don't know how he would have turned out without heavy cannabis use. (he rolls them and smokes them with the frequency of a heavy cig smoker, little ones that look like normal roll ups.) But i believe he would at least of given a passing dam about others.
I really don't believe that cannabis is worse than alcohol, but don't pretend it is harmless. It most definitely is not.

[sarahj]

No i am sorry, but he is 39, and has smoked heavily since around 19, I agree he is a waster (i have no time for him) but all the side effects and obsessed selfish behavior are real and have slowly come in getting progressively worse. I understand that i am being a bit unfair using someone you don't know as evidence for my case, but i have seen the steady changes in him. I don't know how he would have turned out without heavy cannabis use. (he rolls them and smokes them with the frequency of a heavy cig smoker, little ones that look like normal roll ups.) But i believe he would at least of given a passing dam about others.
I really don't believe that cannabis is worse than alcohol, but don't pretend it is harmless. It most definitely is not.

I accept your point, however, I feel you are blaming the substance rather than the man. It is easier for you to attribute his behaviour to one particular correlated habit than to accept that something else caused him to develop these problems. Your brother would not have given up on his life had he felt he had something to live for. Obviously he believes that going out, socialising (whatever it is you think he should be doing) is not worth doing. There is some other reason for that but I will hold steadily that it is not cannabis.

Perhaps he is depressed? Perhaps he is just an introverted person? There are a multitude of other possible reasons for his behaviour that I would find more plausible. As I have said, you can only prove correlation, not causation.

You brother smokes cannabis. Your brother lives his life in a way that you feel is wasting it.

Perhaps he has "wasted his life" because he smokes cannabis. Perhaps he smokes cannabis because he is down and is "wasting his life". Perhaps the two factors are completely unrelated. However, you cannot say one way or another, so I would ask you not to draw a relationship of causation where you cannot prove it.

[Cato]

No i am sorry, but he is 39, and has smoked heavily since around 19, I agree he is a waster (i have no time for him) but all the side effects and obsessed selfish behavior are real and have slowly come in getting progressively worse. I understand that i am being a bit unfair using someone you don't know as evidence for my case, but i have seen the steady changes in him. I don't know how he would have turned out without heavy cannabis use. (he rolls them and smokes them with the frequency of a heavy cig smoker, little ones that look like normal roll ups.) But i believe he would at least of given a passing dam about others.
I really don't believe that cannabis is worse than alcohol, but don't pretend it is harmless. It most definitely is not.

I hate those little joints.



Much better...

(And for those who know me; yes I giggled a lot!!!)

[sarahj]

I hate those little joints.



Much better...

(And for those who know me; yes I giggled a lot!!!)

lol so did I.

You'd NEVER be able to smoke one that big alone.

(bet I could though!)

[scratchnsniff]

How about YOU admit that there were factors in your brothers life that caused him to turn to a drug for comfort? If it had not been cannabis, it would have been alcohol or coke or prescription drugs...

You need to stop blaming the drug and ask yourself why your brother gave up on his life? It certainly wasn't because of a specific drug. I am aware that his situation is distressing for you and I am very sorry, however, do not blame a drug. You have no evidence of causation anyway.

I would bet that your brother would have "wasted his life" (if that's the subjective assessment you wish to give) with or without cannabis.

perhaps you could tone down the arrogance enough to admit that i know my brother better than you and have enough wherewithal to spot the changes in his life and connect the dots.
Anyway, i have said i don't care if its legalized. But dont pretend its always safe. it is not.
I have not read the entire thread. Has every person with real personel experiance come under this sort of attack.
you could take a leaf out of cato's book and learn to discuss all the issues honestly.

EDIT I posted this before seeing your latest post. you have come back their with some good points i disagree with, but i am going to but out now, this subject is to personell, more so than i realized before my 1st post.

[sarahj]

perhaps you could tone down the arrogance enough to admit that i know my brother better than you and have enough wherewithal to spot the changes in his life and connect the dots.
Anyway, i have said i don't care if its legalized. But dont pretend its always safe. it is not.
I have not read the entire thread. Has every person with real personel experiance come under this sort of attack.
you could take a leaf out of cato's book and learn to discuss all the issues honestly.

scractchnsniff, I am not attacking you. I am merely attacking your flawed argument. You CANNOT draw an assumption of causation from a correlation. Cannot. Full stop.

That's it.

I have no problem discussing issues honestly. I just don't suffer fools gladly. Cato is a gentleman with fantastic manners. I am just a scruffy student with a big mouth - I cannot always match his eloquence.

Now - once more. Prove causation in an acceptable generalisable manner. Please.

[truthisfree]

only got this far in reading the thread. legalize it or not but don't pretend its harmless, my brother has been a heavy cannabis user for the last 20 years, He is completely incapable of holding an intelligent conversation, utterly selfish and paranoid (their is a long list after this). I no longer have anything to do with him, the cannabis use has turned him from a decent human being with potential for a good life into a waster I never saw him once in all that time in a state where he could discuss changing.
Oh and he didn't use other drugs, cannabis was all he wanted so he wouldn't spend money on anything else, including going out , traveling or even going to his sisters Funeral to comfort her children. He has utterly wasted his life. So dont give the ballix about it being harmless.
yes i did a bit as a student, and i know lots of people who still do. For most no harm will come. but dont pretend their is no danger.

I too have known someone like this and wondered if it was the effects of the cannabis that made them that way. The case I know of stopped smoking cannabis (really heavy smoker) and started drinking. Complete disaster, he became violent.

I did spend some time talking to this person and discovered a complete mish-mash of contradictory beliefs, really low self-esteem, and an aggressive attitude towards society in general. I feel that he had real problems, whatever caused them I do not know, but am sure he would not have wished them on himself.

I have no doubt that someone like that person I know is way better smoking than drinking albeit a veritable vegetable.

The crazy thing is that your brother can and will consume cannabis regardless of whether it is illegal or not. The argument for the legalisation is very much tied to this fact. For the 99.9% of people who smoke it, there will always be a small % that should not, same with alcohol and across the counter pharmaceuticals.