Cannabis haul! This is a Joke, Wake Up Smell the Beans

[femmefatale]

Such is the price of liberty...

...or ill thought out laws.

[zebedee bong]

I was in Rotterdam just before Christmas last year. There was an Irish guy among the people I was there with and from the moment he arrived all he had on his mind was you know what. To our embarrassment, on the first night there he just walked up to random Dutch people and asked where he could get what he was after. He seemed to be under the impression that the Netherlands was swimming in the stuff. They gave him the necessary directions. They also looked at him with a mixture of disgust and resignation. They know their laws invite this kind of thing but, from what I can tell, they aren't happy about it.

So don't you think it is a bit ridiculous for irish citizens to travel hundreds of miles for some cannabis when they could easily go to their own local koffieshop, all it takes is a change in the law.. with the stroke of a pen"illegal" becomes "decriminalized" and the world keeps on turning except now Irish citizens will be treated with DIGNITY and given a decent CIVILIZED choice.

[Cato]

...or ill thought out laws.

The Dutch seem to value the freedom of the individual, and while some negative consequences flow from that, on the balance freedom is more important.

Again, I do not understand the need some people have to impose their views and prejudices on others. If one does not wish to do X, then don't do it. That is one's right. But one should respect the rights of others to make decisions for themselves.

[truthisfree]

"During the 1990s the Netherlands faced a shortage of prison cells, but a decline in crime has since led to overcapacity in the prison system. The country now has capacity for 14,000 prisoners but only 12,000 detainees."

here

Since the publication of this article the authorities in the Netherlands have decided to take prisoners from neighbouring countries so they can continue to keep staff etc. paid from the revenue created.

There has been a total of 8 prisons closed in the Netherlands, and all of our prisons are overcrowded with prisoners being released before their sentences are served. The plans for a new Super-prison have been scrapped due to lack of funds.

This does not suggest an increase in criminality, in fact the opposite.

What the people on this thread are suggesting does way more than allow ordinary everyday people to have a smoke of cannabis without fear of being criminalised.

[femmefatale]

The Dutch seem to value the freedom of the individual, and while some negative consequences flow from that, on the balance freedom is more important.

Again, I do not understand the need some people have to impose their views and prejudices on others. If one does not wish to do X, then don't do it. That is one's right. But one should respect the rights of others to make decisions for themselves.

Are you talking about me, Cato? I'm not seeking to impose anything on anyone. If you have a problem with the drugs laws in the Republic of Ireland, you need to call upon your political representatives to do something about that. I'm not out looking for current drugs laws to be tightened or even retained. I don't think drugs are a good thing and I think the benefits to the healthy are non-existent. The dangers seem to be unclear and not adequately understood. I think decriminalization is more problematic than people are prepared to admit. There are legal and social consequences to unilaterally relaxing drug laws in Ireland.

I think freedom is enormously important. It would seem to me that one surrenders one's freedom and control when one takes drugs.

[femmefatale]

So don't you think it is a bit ridiculous for irish citizens to travel hundreds of miles for some cannabis when they could easily go to their own local koffieshop, all it takes is a change in the law.. with the stroke of a pen"illegal" becomes "decriminalized" and the world keeps on turning except now Irish citizens will be treated with DIGNITY and given a decent CIVILIZED choice.

ZB, there are all manner of things that aren't openly available in Ireland but are legally available elsewhere. Just because something has been decriminalized elsewhere, does not mean that it should automatically be decriminalized everywhere.

[Cato]

Where's the prejudice? Are you saying the soft drug laws in Ireland and elsewhere are informed/motivated by prejudice and nothing else?

Frankly, yes. That seems to me to be one of the main motivation. That and the peculiar need that some people have to impinge on the freedom of others.

We aren't faced with a new phenomenon here on which the law is silent. There are laws in place. That is the current state of affairs. If people want the laws abrogated or relaxed, they have to make the case for that.

The law on this issue cannot be justified. For me that is enough to cause the law to be modified or revoked. It is an unjust law that impinges on the liberty of the individual.

People have put forward some reasonable arguments here. On the other hand, it would seem to me that supporters aren't prepared to deal honestly with the reported problems associated with cannabis. Psychosis in teenage users seems to me to be a big issue. The link between cannabis use and schizophrenia needs to be explored further. Reference had been made to how cannabis use can impact on normal functioning. Does it make people neglectful (parents), inefficient (workers/students), etc.? These things needs to be discussed further.

Hence why I said 'regulate it'. It should only me made available to over 21s. As to the rest, this has already been rebuffed by other posters. You have simply chosen to ignore them. Alcohol has much more series effects than cannabis; would you like to see it prohibited. Like everything moderation is the key, but any individual may do it to excess. Frankly, as long as it does not harm anyone else, that is their right.

You seem to think decriminalization would remove the criminal element that currently controls the supply of the drug. As I mentioned above, however, Ireland is part of an integrated Europe. Criminals and others exploit any legal asynchrony across the region. If Ireland relaxes it's laws in the absence of a European consensus on the issue, Ireland could very well become a destination for those trying to evade/circumvent tougher laws elsewhere. Criminal gangs may very well see Ireland as a prime spot from which to import and export cannabis.

On that point I could agree, but only on a practical basis. We would need to get the UK, at least, to jump with us to avoid those consequences. Do you really think that the criminal element would be worse or better than it is now? Right now the policy of prohibition that you support is enriching gangs here in Ireland, needlessly criminalizing users, costing the state a fortune in enforcement, and making the drugs, because of contaminants, dangerous. Are you happy with all of those consequences? Really?

Some of the people here do report that cannabis use helps them in various ways. I believe it should be made available where a genuine therapeutic benefit can be gained. I think others are in denial about the obvious dependency they have and to what extent a powerful, potent substance is controlling them and their actions/decisions.

That's merely your uninformed judgment. Nobody here has reported being 'controlled' by cannabis. Drama much?

[Chief-TP]

Are you talking about me, Cato? I'm not seeking to impose anything on anyone. If you have a problem with the drugs laws in the Republic of Ireland, you need to call upon your political representatives to do something about that. I'm not out looking for current drugs laws to be tightened or even retained. I don't think drugs are a good thing and I think the benefits to the healthy are non-existent. The dangers seem to be unclear and not adequately understood. I think decriminalization is more problematic than people are prepared to admit. There are legal and social consequences to unilaterally relaxing drug laws in Ireland.

I think freedom is enormously important. It would seem to me that one surrenders one's freedom and control when one takes drugs.

Fair enough, but do you apply the same principles to pharmaceutical drugs??

[femmefatale]

Frankly, yes. That seems to me to be one of the main motivation. That and the peculiar need that some people have to impinge on the freedom of others.

You really think that that's what's going on? Myself and others just want to control how everyone else leads their life? My background may be in law but I am actually not in favour of an overly rule/law-bound society. Most modern countries do however operate according to a complex set of legal norms. As I said before, if you have a problem with that or the norms in question, you need to take it up with your political representatives. The argument you are making here could be used to justify legalizing all drugs and indeed most things, if not everything.

The law on this issue cannot be justified. For me that is enough to cause the law to be modified or revoked. It is an unjust law that impinges on the liberty of the individual.

How do you know it can't be justified? Have you researched this issue? Do you know the exact harms and benefits, the gains and the losses likely to flow from decriminalization? You seem to be assuming that there is no harm and therefore no just cause for prohibition. You are adopting an absolutist position and one which could potentially see all drugs decriminalized.

Hence why I said 'regulate it'. It should only me made available to over 21s. As to the rest, this has already been rebuffed by other posters. You have simply chosen to ignore them. Alcohol has much more series effects than cannabis; would you like to see it prohibited. Like everything moderation is the key, but any individual may do it to excess. Frankly, as long as it does not harm anyone else, that is their right.

So, if I point to an newspaper article suggesting that cannabis can produce neglectful parents, and a pro-cannabis persons says they disagree, that's my argument rebuffed? You are showing your bias, Cato!

On that point I could agree, but only on a practical basis. We would need to get the UK, at least, to jump with us to avoid those consequences. Do you really think that the criminal element would be worse or better than it is now? Right now the policy of prohibition that you support is enriching gangs here in Ireland, needlessly criminalizing users, costing the state a fortune in enforcement, and making the drugs, because of contaminants, dangerous. Are you happy with all of those consequences? Really?

So we would have to get the UK to adopt the same laws? What about France, Italy, Spain, Portugal? Drugs and drug trakfficking represent a global phenomenon/challenge. National solutions won't suffice.

That's merely your uninformed judgment. Nobody here has reported being 'controlled' by cannabis. Drama much?

Multiple posters have spoken of trying to source cannabis, how much they spend on it, the efforts they go to to get it, the risks they expose themselves to to consume it, how they basically can't function without it, etc. If that doesn't constitute being in thrall to something, I don't know what does!!

[i.m.o]

If we have any chance of legalising cannabis, I feel it will be on the basis of medicinal grounds in which case you will need the support of medicinal users and more importantly, potential medicinal users.

Two weeks ago I watched "run from the cure", I have since convinced six other people to watch it and I'm trying to convince more. I firmly believe that if it was shown to everyone in this country, we would have the support to change these pointless drug laws, Since watching this documentary I have downloaded forms for LCI and I've started sending emails to all the politicians through contact.ie, calling for a change in our drug policies.

This is a must see for everyone, [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhT9282-Tw"]YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 1 of 7)[/ame]