Cannabis haul! This is a Joke, Wake Up Smell the Beans

[femmefatale]

I have been reading quite a lot about this recently, and the people in the Netherlands seem to object to the day-trippers that arrive for a few hours and are very welcoming and happy for the "Cannabis" tourist that goes for a few days or weeks.

I have seen exactly the same attitude in Copenhagen where the Swedes take a quick trip from Malmo to get drunk and then leave again. I think this negative attitude is way more to do with the neighbouring animosities and the type of people who just go to a country for a few hours to avail of cannabis or alcohol.

Well, if Ireland unilaterally decides to adopt very permissive drug laws, it will become a destination spot for people trying to evade tough drug laws elsewhere, by they users or smugglers.

[zebedee bong]

My, those ground beans smell fantastic, fresh koffie with a little aromatic leaf is not to everyone's liking however the population deserve a choice free from criminality. Now it appears that criminality is thrust upon the population by the authority who claims to prevent criminal activity.

[truthisfree]

Well, if Ireland unilaterally decides to adopt very permissive drug laws, it will become a destination spot for people trying to evade tough drug laws elsewhere, by they users or smugglers.

If Ireland does the same as the Netherlands it will give us the benefits of cannabis tourism without the problems of day trippers that they are not so keen on in the Netherlands.

There are not tough laws on cannabis generally throughout Europe with most of the laws related to cannabis not being enforced fully at all.

The problems we have here is the resources that are being spent on Cannabis could be way better spent on hard drugs. There is a large scale problem her with smuggling and most of this is cannabis. The people and resources that have to police this should be policing other areas.

This is going to happen anyway Femme, but it would once to see it for once planned in the open, and not decisions made behind closed doors.

[femmefatale]

If Ireland does the same as the Netherlands it will give us the benefits of cannabis tourism without the problems of day trippers that they are not so keen on in the Netherlands.

There are not tough laws on cannabis generally throughout Europe with most of the laws related to cannabis not being enforced fully at all.

The problems we have here is the resources that are being spent on Cannabis could be way better spent on hard drugs. There is a large scale problem her with smuggling and most of this is cannabis. The people and resources that have to police this should be policing other areas.

This is going to happen anyway Femme, but it would once to see it for once planned in the open, and not decisions made behind closed doors.

What are the benefits of cannabis tourism? My Dutch friends are happy with the relaxed laws but don't like the 'unsavoury' tourists they seem to attract. I don't think the money such tourists bring in compensates for the disadvantages.

Is a lot cannabis, destined for other countries, transported through the Netherlands? I can imagine it is. Surely this attracts a criminal element and is another unwelcome side-effect of decriminalization.

[Cato]

Cato, the fact is that cannabis sale/purchase is currently criminalized. That being the case, those who want to see that legal position changed are the ones that need to make the case in favour of such a step. I am not arguing for legal reform. Those in favour of reform need to put forward a solid case in defense of it.

I personally have no desire to regulate the lives of others. We don't live in an anarchic society though and, whether we like it or not, ours is a law-bound country. The current law reflects a particular attitude to the desirability or otherwise of drugs. If people don't like it, they are the ones who need to challenge the assumptions and perceptions underpinning the law.

One can always question the basis of a law, and if having found that no case can be made for it, then it ought to be changed. No reasonable case, beyond mere prejudice, has been made here for the retention of the law on cannabis. You agreed earlier that the case has to be made for the forbidding of something in order to make law, not that one has to make a case for the permission of any particular activity. That principle still holds even, or especially, in the case of existing law.

Simply something may cause some harm, is not, in and of itself, a reason to criminalize something.

Decriminalize it, standardize it, regulate it, tax it, and then leave it up to the free decision of adults as to whether or not they use it. It will also remove a huge source of funds from the hands of criminal gangs.

In making the case for cannabis, I do think it is insincere to deliberately confuse the therapeutic and non-therapeutic uses of the drug. I also think it is insincere and misleading to try and pretend that cannabis represents some sort of healthy lifestyle option. From what I can tell, it doesn't.

There has been no case made here that cannabis is harmful. The main dangers seem to come from what it's mixed with; a consequence of its criminalization.

Indeed most of the testimony here from users and links to research that have been presented seem to indicate that, rather than causing harm, can, in moderation (like nearly everything) be beneficial.

[femmefatale]

I was in Rotterdam just before Christmas last year. There was an Irish guy among the people I was there with and from the moment he arrived all he had on his mind was you know what. To our embarrassment, on the first night there he just walked up to random Dutch people and asked where he could get what he was after. He seemed to be under the impression that the Netherlands was swimming in the stuff. They gave him the necessary directions. They also looked at him with a mixture of disgust and resignation. They know their laws invite this kind of thing but, from what I can tell, they aren't happy about it.

[truthisfree]

What are the benefits of cannabis tourism? My Dutch friends are happy with the relaxed laws but don't like the 'unsavoury' tourists they seem to attract. I don't think the money such tourists bring in compensates for the disadvantages.

Is a lot cannabis, destined for other countries, transported through the Netherlands? I can imagine it is. Surely this attracts a criminal element and is another unwelcome side-effect of decriminalization.

I have pointed out in three posts already that the people in the Netherlands are very keen on the cannabis tourist that travels there to partake of the relaxed café atmosphere and cannabis on offer, they are not as keen on the person who drives over on a whim to get stoned.

As regards what you can and cannot imagine as regards smuggling, I am really not in a position to respond to imaginative prepositions.

We have a serious criminal element here because of drug prohibition, just like when alcohol was prohibited in the US. Take a look at the gang-land wars in Limerick and elsewhere in this country that has had €11 million of cannabis seized since this thread started just over a week ago and by the Garda's own figures, a tiny percentage of what gets through.

What you think, imagine, or feel has very little to do with the reality of this debate which is why should millions be wasted on the prohibition of a herb which has been proven to be harmless and of medical benifit to some people.

No it does not make an idiot into a genuis, nor transform an unimaginative person into Einstein with a smoke, all it does is provide a mild intoxication which has no hangover, no loss of sensibilities and no harm to anyone.

[Cato]

I was in Rotterdam just before Christmas last year. There was an Irish guy among the people I was there with and from the moment he arrived all he had on his mind was you know what. To our embarrassment, on the first night there he just walked up to random Dutch people and asked where he could get what he was after. He seemed to be under the impression that the Netherlands was swimming in the stuff. They gave him the necessary directions. They also looked at him with a mixture of disgust and resignation. They know their laws invite this kind of thing but, from what I can tell, they aren't happy about it.

Such is the price of liberty...

[femmefatale]

One can always question the basis of a law, and if having found that no case can be made for it, then it ought to be changed. No reasonable case, beyond mere prejudice, has been made here for the retention of the law on cannabis. You agreed earlier that the case has to be made for the forbidding of something in order to make law, not that one has to make a case for the permission of any particular activity. That principle still holds even, or especially, in the case of existing law.

Simply something may cause some harm, is not, in and of itself, a reason to criminalize something.

Decriminalize it, standardize it, regulate it, tax it, and then leave it up to the free decision of adults as to whether or not they use it. It will also remove a huge source of funds from the hands of criminal gangs.

There has been no case made here that cannabis is harmful. The main dangers seem to come from what it's mixed with; a consequence of its criminalization.

Indeed most of the testimony here from users and links to research that have been presented seem to indicate that, rather than causing harm, can, in moderation (like nearly everything) be beneficial.

Where's the prejudice? Are you saying the soft drug laws in Ireland and elsewhere are informed/motivated by prejudice and nothing else?

We aren't faced with a new phenomenon here on which the law is silent. There are laws in place. That is the current state of affairs. If people want the laws abrogated or relaxed, they have to make the case for that.

People have put forward some reasonable arguments here. On the other hand, it would seem to me that supporters aren't prepared to deal honestly with the reported problems associated with cannabis. Psychosis in teenage users seems to me to be a big issue. The link between cannabis use and schizophrenia needs to be explored further. Reference had been made to how cannabis use can impact on normal functioning. Does it make people neglectful (parents), inefficient (workers/students), etc.? These things needs to be discussed further.

You seem to think decriminalization would remove the criminal element that currently controls the supply of the drug. As I mentioned above, however, Ireland is part of an integrated Europe. Criminals and others exploit any legal asynchrony across the region. If Ireland relaxes it's laws in the absence of a European consensus on the issue, Ireland could very well become a destination for those trying to evade/circumvent tougher laws elsewhere. Criminal gangs may very well see Ireland as a prime spot from which to import and export cannabis.

Some of the people here do report that cannabis use helps them in various ways. I believe it should be made available where a genuine therapeutic benefit can be gained. I think others are in denial about the obvious dependency they have and to what extent a powerful, potent substance is controlling them and their actions/decisions.

[zebedee bong]

The problem with prohibition is that the nation produces too many people with a deviant criminal mindset, for me this a real problem in society.

The users ignore the nannies and hail the dealer as the big authority.

The authority is infamous for extending (tentacles) lines of credit

Bills must be paid no matter where the money comes from.

So it appears that the National Drug Strategy inadvertently manages to funnel all monies from the sale of drugs into the bank account of criminals

At the present time one cannot survive without the other, they are very much co-dependent on each other, a living breathing fuggedup nightmare.

oh give me a cafe by the riverside with music, tea, herb and peace...