Hotel Ballyfornia

[Schuhart]

There’s a very simple way of resolving this issue.

The building programme of the Department of Education is published here.

Can supporters of this daft scheme indicate precisely which of the 60+ school projects listed as proceeding to tender could alternatively be done cheaper by conversion of a nearby insolvent hotel?

See how quickly this kind of vagary evaporates when exposed to reality?

Now, can we just agree to never speak of this again.

[lostexpectation]

a number of hotels have already had schools in them, in the old in town hotels that got passed by the new ring roads ones

[Schuhart]

a number of hotels have already had schools in them, in the old in town hotels that got passed by the new ring roads ones

Grand. Were whatever cases you have in mind regarded as a permanent solution for that school's needs? (which is the contention here - you'll notice this isn't being put forward as a temporary stopgap) Or was it just a temporary siting, pending some other school works?

In other words, can you answer the question I posed above. Which of the 60+ school projects listed by the Department of Education as proceeding to tender could alternatively be done cheaper by conversion of a nearby insolvent hotel?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Schuhart

Your statement it does not make any difference where the the location of the hotels are is so ludicrous that you’ve simply past beyond the point at which rational discussion can take place.

What on earth kind of interest are you protecting here?

The problem is exactly as I’ve stated it. There is no reason why a bad location for a hotel should be a good location for a school.Because its not a good idea. Because there are so many holes in it.

I've explained to you the reasons why these hotels were built in a previous post (tax break for 10 years and the prospect of 10 years of ludicrous property value increase to sell at the end of it.) Surely you are not labouring under the idea that all these hotels were a response to increased tourism? Why have you ignored my explanation of this and reverted to your obsession with the idea that hotels and schools are based so far apart as to be 'remote'?

This is a bad idea idea that the CAPTAIN CON has come up with...Why are you going out of your way to support it?? No, but I hope the Dept of Education would dismiss this ludicrous nonsense.What I’m actually asking is for you to identify even ten locations where this is the case.

Anywhere where there is a school struggling with Portakabin classrooms and where there is a hotel which has gone bust or has stopped paying bills.

That would be

Dublin
Cork
Galway
Limerick
Wexford
Waterford
Killarney
Mullingar
Kilkenny
Naas.

There you go. Thats the thing about whats happened in Ireland, you see. The problem of doomed hotel developments and crumbling schools is fairly widespread in Ireland. Its a major issue in the Education area and if you check back on the threads in the Education section you'll find plenty of comment from all over Ireland about the state of schools and the crooked little deal that a Fianna Failer had to supply Portakabins. You don't seem to understand that we have a government which sees a problem like in terms ofa 'good screw' for a pal. Same thing as the e-voting machines, a hugely expensive white elephant made even more expensive by having a pal charge the taxpayer for storing them.

This is Fianna Fail standard operating procedure, remember. Any problem can be fixed by lobbing large amounts of taxpayers money to a pal. Any opportunity to make money stays within the party and screw the taxpayer.

The fact that you are unable to do this is a very strong objection, and exposes your idea as superficially attractive nonsense.

Only if there are no struggling hotels within commute of a crumbling school. Your angle here seems to be to demand that I name them. I did ask you to say whether you think there are none and I notice you haven't responded to that. Somnething smells here chum and it smells of someone who has something to lose by this idea.

Chronic overstatement again. I’d prefer the State just used whatever money it had to best meet school building needs.

Yes, but this is Ireland we are talking about and thats not going to happen while there's a penny to be turned by some bent councillor or TD or family thereof.

I don’t see your silly suggestion helping, for the reasons already set out that you have not refuted.

I've refuted your objections. You just refuse to see that. And I'd love to know why.

I’ve no idea where these insolvent hotels are located.

Do you not read the papers or open your eyes when travelling about the country? Re-read the bit about why these hotels were built in the first place. Do you actually understand WHY these hotels were popping up all over Ireland?

Remember, you are the one who has to establish that they are close as makes no difference to where there’s an urgent need for new school buildings.

This is interesting. You want me to measure out the possible commute for 10 examples for you? Who are you? The newly crowned Emperor of Ireland?

So you’re suggesting that children will fly to school? Or travel there by Intercity rail? Children who can currently walk to a prefab will be taken by taxi down a motorway to school?

Listen, dozy. The reason I stated hotels are built on or near transport hubs is because its generally not a good idea to site them where they can't be reached/ I'm sorry to have to explain that to someone with as keen an intellect as yours but it will actually dawn on you when you take a look around any decent size town or city in Ireland.

Yeah, and the overwhelming bulk of them don’t have an insolvent hotel next door.

Not every household in Ireland has a school next door either. Your point is?

Not panicking by assuming any ludicrous idea is an improvement.

This isn't even English.

I’ve got it all along. I want you to recognise that this opportunity does not exist. I’ve never suggested that you want to help developers. I’m just pointing out that this would be an implication of your inept and incompetent scheme.

Right. My inept and incompetent scheme as opposed to what? Rent more Portakabins indefinitely from Fianna Fail Educational Supplies Ltd (Managing Director Celia Larkin perhaps?)

As opposed to watching newly built buildings going to waste and schools crumble further? Is that your plan? Because that is a hell of a lot more incompetent than my idea, matey.

Yes, and the point is that would be at least worth something. Whereas the hotel isn’t.

You definitely aren't an accountant thats for sure.

The Irish manouver is your daft linkage of the two disconnected phenomenon.

Two seperate problems. One solution to turn both around to the benefit of the Dept of Education, schoolkids and making use of unused buildings. Your proposal is to do nothing. You can't be Lenihan- you've got to be Cowan.

I’m reminded of that recent thread recommending that we put philosophy on the school curriculum, as so many Irish people are incapable of thinking.

There have been a number of threads suggesting that the brightest of Irish people work abroad because of emigration. I am not sure about that as I am in contact with bright people who still live at home. I'm not certain about the strength and depth of the intelligence available at home when I look at the news and I come across someone like you, I have to say.

Which leads to situations like this – you expending an awful lot of effort into defending a vagary that you thought up in two seconds.

Buy a dictionary and stop reaching for words the meaning of which you clearly do not understand.

There is definitely more to your objection to this idea than meets the eye. You've wobbled around a few objections which I've answered and ignored what I've explained to you about these 'mushroom' hotels and why they were built.

Something not quite right here.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Schuhart

Which of the 60+ school projects listed by the Department of Education as proceeding to tender could alternatively be done cheaper by conversion of a nearby insolvent hotel?

This is interesting. Suddenly you are aware that the D of E has 60+ school projects 'proceeding to tender'.

You have some connection with this issue you'd like to declare? Thats an unusual fact for a disinterested observer in a debate to know .... there's a smell of 'me fein' off your objections to the idea I put forward and I'd love to know what your interest is that you are worried about.

Clearly this is something of an area you know something about. Care to come clean?

[Schuhart]

What on earth kind of interest are you protecting here?

I’v made that clear.

Why have you ignored my explanation of this and reverted to your obsession with the idea that hotels and schools are based so far apart as to be 'remote'?

I’m sticking with the point that you’ve failed to answer. Why is a bad location for a hotel automatically a good location for a school?

Anywhere where there is a school struggling with Portakabin classrooms and where there is a hotel which has gone bust or has stopped paying bills.

Which of the 60+ projects identified by the Department of Education have you in mind. Name the school, and the insolvent hotel suitable as a replacement.

I did ask you to say whether you think there are none and I notice you haven't responded to that.

I suspect there are none. Now prove me wrong.

Do you actually understand WHY these hotels were popping up all over Ireland?

Explain why the factors influencing the location of these hotels means they are now ideally placed to be schools. Do this by citing even one case where the Department could drop a school from its plan and take over an insolvent hotel instead.

This is interesting. You want me to measure out the possible commute for 10 examples for you? Who are you? The newly crowned Emperor of Ireland?

No, just someone who thinks you need to demonstrate that you are not talking nonsense.

Listen, dozy. The reason I stated hotels are built on or near transport hubs is because its generally not a good idea to site them where they can't be reached/ I'm sorry to have to explain that to someone with as keen an intellect as yours but it will actually dawn on you when you take a look around any decent size town or city in Ireland.

My point remains. Unless you envisage schoolchildren travelling by air, your point is incoherent.

Not every household in Ireland has a school next door either. Your point is?

That insolvent hotels are unlikely to present an alternative solution to the accommodation problem of schools. .

Right. My inept and incompetent scheme as opposed to what? Rent more Portakabins indefinitely from Fianna Fail Educational Supplies Ltd (Managing Director Celia Larkin perhaps?)

As opposed to watching newly built buildings going to waste and schools crumble further? Is that your plan? Because that is a hell of a lot more incompetent than my idea, matey.

Your idea is inept and incompetent for the reasons stated.

Prove me wrong by answering the question. Indicate where precisely you can replace a school on the Department of Education list with an insolvent hotel. If you cannot do this, you are simply full of it.

[Gimpanzee]

Schuhart

This is interesting. Suddenly you are aware that the D of E has 60+ school projects 'proceeding to tender'.

You have some connection with this issue you'd like to declare? Thats an unusual fact for a disinterested observer in a debate to know .... there's a smell of 'me fein' off your objections to the idea I put forward and I'd love to know what your interest is that you are worried about.

Clearly this is something of an area you know something about. Care to come clean?

Ya, Schuart... whats with all the factz, poindexter?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Schuhart

There’s a very simple way of resolving this issue.

The building programme of the Department of Education is published here.

Can supporters of this daft scheme indicate precisely which of the 60+ school projects listed as proceeding to tender could alternatively be done cheaper by conversion of a nearby insolvent hotel?

See how quickly this kind of vagary evaporates when exposed to reality?

Now, can we just agree to never speak of this again.

Please, pal. Look up the meaning of the word 'vagary' will you? You are embarrassing yourself.

And as for the 'never speak of it again'.... why? What has you in such a panic over a suggestion on a forum? You have a vested interest which my suggestion if made a reality would cost you money- of that I am sure.

[Schuhart]

Schuhart

This is interesting. Suddenly you are aware that the D of E has 60+ school projects 'proceeding to tender'.

You have some connection with this issue you'd like to declare? Thats an unusual fact for a disinterested observer in a debate to know .... there's a smell of 'me fein' off your objections to the idea I put forward and I'd love to know what your interest is that you are worried about.

Clearly this is something of an area you know something about. Care to come clean?

Shucks, you got me. I have a secret source of information called 'Google' which found that the Department of Education have a website (called "education.ie", those sneaky chaps at the Ministry know you'd never guess that). On that website I found this secret memo from the Minister indicating the list had been published on their website. I then cracked the encryption on this data, and linked it to my post above.

Like, are you really so inept that you find the idea of someone actually informing their opinion with fact as alien and beyond belief?

Or is this just your way of throwing up a smokescreen now that your bluff is called?

Which schools can you drop off that list by accommodating in an insolvent hotel? Answer the question. You are suggesting they are all over the place. Prove your point with facts.

[Schuhart]

Please, pal. Look up the meaning of the word 'vagary' will you? You are embarrassing yourself.

Always happy to respond to a request for information.

va⋅gar⋅y 1.an unpredictable or erratic action, occurrence, course, or instance: the vagaries of weather; the vagaries of the economic scene.
2.a whimsical, wild, or unusual idea, desire, or action.

A whimsical idea pretty much catches it for me.

Now can you respond to my request for information. What insolvent hotels can be used as alternatives to the schools on that list?